UPDATE: letter from a passenger aboard that flight, [received February 18, 2006]:
"Hello Sir:
I just wanted to write you and thank you for all the support your site has given last year. To update you on what's happened so far, the Transport Safety Board has just sent questionnaires which we had to complete. Meanwhile, Air France has been offering settlements to individuals of around C$11,000 [Canadian dollars]-- one time off for all luggage loss, injures, emotional, etc. However, as you know the Air Transat case set a precedent for C$12,500 and was less severe than the Air France accident by a major level. One passenger I know of from the the plane is still seeing a physiotherapist even today. Her jaws apparently are locked and it's due to the clinching of her teeth when she has nightmares at night about the plane crash. I really feel sorry for her..."
==================
original website from summertime crash period here:
"If I can get back to Paris with a bicycle, I would go back that way," Poorsattar, who was born in Iran, joked.
Flight 358, Air France, crash lands at Pearson International Airport in August 2005, with 309 people on board, everyone gets out okay, safe. Safe? Well, they all survived, yes, and thank their lucky stars, but one thing the news media has not mentioned in depth is the amount and degree of PTSD's that will emerge: post-traumatic stress disorders.
Many of the passengers and some of the crew will find that they will experience post-traumatic stress disorders of various kinds, panic attacks, nightmares, fear of flying phobias, fear of heights, claustrophobia, etc., following the ordeal they survived. SOme will feel that they are living on borrowed time, and they will change the way they live their lives. Some will become more religious, some less religious. Many willl experience PTSD for the rest of their lives, and there will be lawsuits, yes, lawsuits, for "mental stress" endured in the crash landing and in the aftermath of their escape from the plane. HUGE LAWSUITS, worth millions of dollars. AIR FRANCE will be paying for this very stupid misake (trying to land in a fierce thunderstorm with lightning all around the airport, red alert, when in fact, the plane had enough fuel to fly to Montreal or Detroit or some safer place) of trying to land in red alert storm. Millions, billions of Canadian dollars. French francs.
Let's look into this a bit:
No complete passenger list has be released, but authorities released a partial list based on their nationality. Among the passengers were:
101 French citizens, 104 Canadians, 19 Italians,
14 Americans, 8 Indians and 7 British citizens.
[WERE YOU ON THIS FLIGHT? Contact me by confidential email at this email address:
reporter.bloom [AT] gmail DOT com
I am an aviation reporter who is also a survivor of an airplane "near-death" accident, a midair fire that was almost fatal, but fortunately we all survived. However, I know firsthand the problems that PTSD can cause, in one's life, in one's career, in one's future travel plans. In my case, I do not fly and have not flown since 1983 when the accident occurred. I never sued anyone and never received a penny in compensation for the ordeal we went through on that ill-fated flight. I hope all goes well for everyone on ill-fated Flight 357, but I know there will be problems. Some big problems.]
*Schiavo, author of the book "Flying Blind, Flying Safe," urged the passengers to move quickly, as the Warsaw Convention, which regulates liability for international airlines, has strict deadlines. Post-traumatic stress syndrome [PTSD] and other psychological trauma often don't hit patients for months, sometimes even years, she said. Airlines have been known to then ask why those passengers did not seek help immediately after the crash.
Among the passengers were:
*Mitra Gopaul, returning from Israel, where he worked for the Bahai World Center as a database administrator. "I'm still wondering why I had to go through this, if there is a godly reason," said Gopaul, who said his 20-year-old daughter was riding a bus along nearby Highway 401 and witnessed the crash. "I have to figure out in my personal life why I had to go through that."
*JoAnn Cordary Bundock, a vice president for Marriott International Inc., said she is reluctant to get involved in 358 litigation, but may not have a choice. "We need compensation that is fair and just, and if it comes to the point of having to sue them because they're not doing what they're supposed to do, then I will do that." She is dreading her flight to Seoul next Tuesday for a business meeting, not because she fears a crash, but because she does not know how she will react to flying. "I want to do my job; I like my job and I can't do my job without traveling," said Bundock, an American who lives in Fort Lauderdale and Toronto and racks up some 25,000 frequent flyer miles a year. "I don't know how this is going to affect me on this trip, or in six trips down the road. I am quite concerned because this is my livelihood."
Dennis Lewis, British/Canadian national returning from job in UAE to visit family and friends in Toronto for five days and then scheduled to fly back to the Middle East
Gwen Dunlop, who was returning from a vacation in France
Olivier Dubois, quoted in many AP news stories
Ahmed Alawata
*Eddie Ho, 19, a college student from South Africa: "The first week, I was plagued by nightmares, difficulty in sleeping, loss of appetite and constant flashbacks," said Ho, who says he's uncomfortable with the lawsuit, but feels compelled to join. "People say, `You're going to get tons of money,' but I don't see it that way. It's such a pain and I want my old life back. I wish it had never happened, I really do. It's uncontrollable and it's a psychological disaster."
Johnny Abedrabbo, a 32-year-old economist,
Stephanie Paquin, a 17-year-old Woodbridge, Ontario, returning from a student exchange in France
Martine Chrocca,
Veronica Laudes, a Toronto resident who was in Paris on business,
Maria Cojocaru, a resident of North York, was travelling from Paris with her seven-year-old daughter and her three-year-old son, after visiting family in Romania.
Dominique Pajot, 54, a Frenchman flying on business
Samantha Todd, a 16-year-old Toronto high school student
Gilles Medioni, a French journalist [Let's see what this journalist writes later!]
Lisa Popow, 15, a Canadian student
Aurélie Durel, 17, a French exchange student
Rashmi Bhawsar, 27, flying with her four-year-old son while immigrating from India
Sonia Tempestini, 19,
MORVARID Poorsattar, from Iran
Bastien Massol
[QUOTE: "I have only one thing to tell them, Air France: I think it's not fair," Cojocaru said. "I thought they would try, you know, to comfort us."] She said this after telling a reporter that Air France did not help much in the terminal after the crash. Another passenger said all Air France offered was US$300 in compensation for her lost items, such as cellphone, computer, baggage, jewelry, everything she had in the cargo hold...)
THE GREAT ESCAPE
Survival instinct took over passengers, experts say
ByCAROLYN ABRAHAM
August 4, 2005
MEDICAL REPORTER; With reports from Katie Rook and Joe Friesen
A primeval, and sometimes ugly, survival instinct swept over some ofthe desperate passengers of Air France Flight 358 when they foundthemselves trapped in the burning plane that skidded off a Torontorunway Tuesday.It was for a time, as several passengers described it, everyone forhimself or herself.Stephanie Paquin, a 17-year-old returning from a student exchange inFrance, said "people were just pushing. They didn't care about anyoneelse." After fleeing through the emergency exits, "everyone wastrampling everyone."Johnny Abedrabbo, a 32-year-old economist, was also struck by the"pushing and shoving" as the first wave of panic set in among hisfellow passengers.AdvertisementsNot everyone turned aggressive in their bid to flee the danger,however. Some were helpful, such as the stranger who pulled Ms. Paquinout of the ravine where the plane ended its slide.But before the plane's emergency exits popped open, the range ofemotions that played out in the crowded aisle of the Airbus A-340 wasa primitive one.Psychologists who study human behaviour under traumatic conditions saythese involuntary survival responses have evolved with us from theearliest days of life on the planet."We have a bunch of primitive reflexes in which we exhibit behaviourlike animals in certain situations," said Steven Taylor, a professorof psychiatry at the University of British Columbia, whose researchfocuses on trauma and anxiety.As Neil Rector, psychologist and head of the anxiety-disorders clinicat Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, put it, "We arehard-wired to seek survival."Generally, Dr. Taylor said, a person can experience four states ofresponse to trauma or a progression of these states.The first is a mode of hypervigilance, where "like a rabbit beinghunted by a dog and hiding in the bush," a person remains very quietand still, absorbing visual cues and scanning the perimeter for anescape route.The second stage involves the urge to flee, followed by the instinctto physically overcome whatever obstacles prevent the escape, commonlyknown as the fight-or-flight response.It is during this third state that people can seem to lose their senseof compassion, Dr. Taylor said, noting this may help explaintemporarily trapped passengers who push and shove as panic sets in.Often people will "later feel embarrassed" for their behaviour.But Dr. Rector pointed out these are automatic reactions. One featureof the fight-or-flight response "is to become myopically focused onthe threat at the expense of other elements of the environment. . . .The instinct for survival overrides the hierarchy of social niceties."The fourth stage, Dr. Taylor said, is "tonic immobility," where aperson might seem to freeze up and later describe the experiencesaying, " 'I couldn't move' . . . They would be just standing thereuntil they were grabbed by someone saying, 'Come on, we've got to getout of here.' "To some extent, Dr. Taylor said, the brain shuts itself down duringtrauma as a protective mechanism, or narrows the ability to focus.This may help explain why some passengers decided to stop to collecttheir carry-on luggage before fleeing the burning aircraft.Dr. Rector noted that those passengers who collected their bags arealso examples of the fact that not everyone perceives danger in thesame way. "Some people perceived less of a threat, and so felt therewas more time to leave in an orderly way."Ms. Paquin, who stopped to gather her bags, was among those who didnot realize the gravity of the situation. The Woodbridge, Ont.,student was surprised by the shouting and panicking of others.Not until she was off the plane, seeing it blazing and turned on itsside, did she think, "Oh my God, I didn't know it was that serious at all."
"Happy to be alive"
Passengers of Flight 358 recount tense moments after landing
by VIVIAN SONG and CHRIS DOUCETTE, reporters
TORONTO SUN
When Air France flight 358 first landed in Toronto after being warned of lightning strikes in the area, the passengers broke into applause.
"We landed and it seemed fine at first, so we all started clapping until all of a sudden we heard this shaking on the aircraft," economist Johnny Abedrabbo, 32, said.
"It just kind of took a nosedive on the runway and swerved to the left."
"We bounced pretty hard," passenger Lauren Langille, 16.
The plane had veered off the runway, but the pilots came on the intercom soon after to reassure passengers that everything was safe and sound, several told The Sun last night at a hotel near the airport.
The first sign of trouble came earlier when the plane aborted a landing and went around for a second attempt.
"The weather is too hard so the captain is going around," passenger Ahmed Alawata recalled.
About a minute before the plane landed, as it approached Pearson the second time, the lights in the cabin went out, said passenger Olivier Dubois. "Just before touching ground, it was all black in the plane, there was no more light, nothing."
Abedrabbo said he heard a sound like a tire blowing out, and the plane began to shimmy and swerve. And that's when he noticed the fire.
"The tire blew up, and as soon as it swerved and stopped, we saw the left engine just basically shoot up in flames, red flames," Abedrabbo said.
Norbert Boudreau of Ottawa said measured panic soon spread throughout the darkened plane.
"Then two minutes later, a stewardess yells out that there was a fire and we had to evacuate at the back," he said.
Langille described how acrid black smoke soon filled the cabin.
"I saw a lot of orange flame. Fire was everywhere and we started to evacuate," she said.
Passengers scrambled out emergency exits and slid down inflatable chutes.
"We slid on our asses to get out and ran up to the street where there was a truck waiting for us," Boudreau said.
Some, like 16-year-old Samantha Todd of Toronto, lost their shoes as they climbed through mud, bushes and brambles to safety. "I wasn't thinking about anything except getting out of the plane," she said.
"There was the fear of the explosion, because we were all trying to go up a hill that was all mud," said Gwen Dunlop, who was returning from a vacation in France.
"We had lost our shoes, we were just scrambling, and there was people with children. The rain was just coming down, and the wind and the lightning. We were just thrown into the weather and thrown into everything."
Dunlop said the evacuation was anything but orderly. "There were people climbing over seats to get out." He said he and other passengers ran through grass as tall as a metre high to the busy Hwy. 401, fearing the plane would explode at any moment.
"Finally we hit a road, where trucks and cars had stopped and people let them into their vehicles," he said.
• Full crash coverage
SHARE YOUR NEAR-MISS, NEAR-CRASH SCARY AIRPLANE STORIES:
"It was a miracle that no one was killed" in yesterday's crash of an Air France Airbus at Pearson airport, says Ontario's deputy chief coroner.
But it's not the first time that an airline disaster has been averted.
Have you ever had a near-miss while flying? Did yesterday's crash at Pearson bring back memories of your own close-call flying experience?
Send your stories by e-mail to online@tor.sunpub.com -- including your full name and city -- and we may publish a selection of your comments online or in the print version of the Sun.
Air France crash probe starts amid dispute over landing
Michel Comte
AFP
August 5, 2005
MIRACLE: Officials view the wreckage of Air France flight 358 as it lies in a gully off the end of the runway in Toronto on August 3. Canadian aircraft investigators said that they are looking at weather as one possible cause of the 'miracle' Toronto plane crash, in which all 309 passengers and crew walked away from the fiery remains of the Airbus A340.(REUTERS)
TORONTO -- An Air France jet that crashed at a Toronto airport was working normally as it arrived, Canadian investigators said on Thursday, but a dispute erupted over who approved the landing during a storm. Canadian authorities and Air France sought to deflect responsibility on who approved the landing while Toronto Pearson International Airport was on "red alert" because of a lightning storm. The Airbus A340 jet hurtled off the runway and ended up in a gully in flames. But all of the 297 passengers and 12 crew survived in what Canada's Transport Minister Jean Lapierre said was a "miracle". Crash investigators have found the so-called black box flight recorders and are studying the information. They said that the jet appeared headed for a safe landing before it skidded off the end of the runway. "The initial landing appeared very normal," said Real Levasseur, lead investigator for the Canadian transportation safety agency. "There was no emergency declared from the part of the air crew and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the aircraft condition and its safety as it was approaching to land." At least three of four engine thrust reversers deployed during landing, which means, "the crew were doing what they were supposed to do to slow the aircraft down after landing". The fourth thruster was too badly damaged to tell whether it had been working, Levasseur said. He noted that a strong tail wind might have given the plane a push as it sped along the runway. Media reports have highlighted other theories. Passengers and witnesses have said that the jet was hit by lightning as it descended. Experts have also said that it could have aquaplaned because of the torrential rain in the area. Pearson airport had earlier stopped landings and departures because of the storm, which investigators have already said probably played a key role in the accident. Investigators have questioned the copilot who was at the controls, but they gave no details. The decision to land has already become a controversy. Air France chairman Jean-Cyril Spinetta indicated that it was the control tower that decided the Airbus could come down in a storm, while Canadian transport minister Lapierre said that it had been the pilot's decision to land. "There is no recommendation that can force a plane to land," Lapierre told Radio-Canada television late on Wednesday. "The only person who makes a decision to land is the pilot, the commander. And as a result, he has full responsibility for that decision," Lapierre added. Spinetta, who is in Toronto heading an emergency team, seemed to blame airport authorities for allowing the landing. "Airport authorities apparently deemed conditions for landing difficult but still possible" despite the rain and wind, he told a news conference. "The Air France jet - I have personally confirmed this - had enough fuel left, if it had been necessary, to land at another airport," he said. Rescuers praised the copilot for taking a last look around the jet to assure no one had been trapped on board. The captain of the jet injured his back in the accident and investigators will not interview him until doctors give approval, Levasseur said. A flight attendant and 12 passengers were still in hospital, according to officials. Passengers Carla Sbrugnera and her husband Enrico Giacomuzzi Moore suffered the worst injuries in the crash. She fractured three vertebrae and he fractured one, doctors said. Randy Knipping, a doctor at Trillium Health Centre in Toronto who specializes in aviation-related injuries, said: "This is still a minor injury from the point of trauma. But when you get your back broken in three places, it's not minor from the point of view of the patient." The couple was sitting in the first row in first class at the front of the plane when it fell into a gully. Giacomuzzi Moore put his head between his legs and his knee was thrown up and broke his nose, Knipping said.
Family sues for 'severe' trauma
Kids now afraid to get into a car: Lawyer
By SARAH GREEN, TORONTO SUN
Air France probe focuses on landingSurvivor fears she'll never flySurvivors promised payoutFlyers: Airport fails guideines
FIVE MEMBERS of a Toronto family who were passengers on the Air France flight are planning to sue for damages for the injuries and trauma they suffered in the fiery crash.
Lawyer David Diamond, representing the family who asked not to be named, said the suit -- to be filed in coming weeks -- will likely ask for damages in the "tens of thousands" for each member of the family.
Diamond said the father injured his ankle and the three children, aged eight to 15, are traumatized by the ordeal, "swearing up and down they're not going to fly again."
One of the children is suffering from bad headaches and all three, who are having nightmares, will need therapy, he said.
"It's severe psychological trauma," Diamond said. "They're afraid to get into a car. It's pretty traumatic for them."
He said the parents are coping "pretty well" with the emotional aftermath.
The suit will possibly name Air France and the Greater Toronto Airport Authority, although no decision has been made, he said. It may become a class-action suit as more passengers come forward.
The family commends the swift evacuation of the Airbus with saving the lives of all 297 passengers and 12 crew members. "There wasn't the panic and mayhem that could have occurred," Diamond said.
Meanwhile, Toronto firm Will Barristers: Morin and Miller will hold an information session next Wednesday for Air France passengers with noted U.S. lawyer Mary Schiavo. She represents families of passengers on the hijacked Sept. 11 planes. nic and mayhem that could have occurred," Diamond said.
Meanwhile, Toronto firm Will Barristers: Morin and Miller will hold an information session next Wednesday for Air France passengers with noted U.S. lawyer Mary Schiavo. She represents families of passengers on the hijacked Sept. 11 planes.
"Hello Sir:
I just wanted to write you and thank you for all the support your site has given last year. To update you on what's happened so far, the Transport Safety Board has just sent questionnaires which we had to complete. Meanwhile, Air France has been offering settlements to individuals of around C$11,000 [Canadian dollars]-- one time off for all luggage loss, injures, emotional, etc. However, as you know the Air Transat case set a precedent for C$12,500 and was less severe than the Air France accident by a major level. One passenger I know of from the the plane is still seeing a physiotherapist even today. Her jaws apparently are locked and it's due to the clinching of her teeth when she has nightmares at night about the plane crash. I really feel sorry for her..."
==================
original website from summertime crash period here:
"If I can get back to Paris with a bicycle, I would go back that way," Poorsattar, who was born in Iran, joked.
Flight 358, Air France, crash lands at Pearson International Airport in August 2005, with 309 people on board, everyone gets out okay, safe. Safe? Well, they all survived, yes, and thank their lucky stars, but one thing the news media has not mentioned in depth is the amount and degree of PTSD's that will emerge: post-traumatic stress disorders.
Many of the passengers and some of the crew will find that they will experience post-traumatic stress disorders of various kinds, panic attacks, nightmares, fear of flying phobias, fear of heights, claustrophobia, etc., following the ordeal they survived. SOme will feel that they are living on borrowed time, and they will change the way they live their lives. Some will become more religious, some less religious. Many willl experience PTSD for the rest of their lives, and there will be lawsuits, yes, lawsuits, for "mental stress" endured in the crash landing and in the aftermath of their escape from the plane. HUGE LAWSUITS, worth millions of dollars. AIR FRANCE will be paying for this very stupid misake (trying to land in a fierce thunderstorm with lightning all around the airport, red alert, when in fact, the plane had enough fuel to fly to Montreal or Detroit or some safer place) of trying to land in red alert storm. Millions, billions of Canadian dollars. French francs.
Let's look into this a bit:
No complete passenger list has be released, but authorities released a partial list based on their nationality. Among the passengers were:
101 French citizens, 104 Canadians, 19 Italians,
14 Americans, 8 Indians and 7 British citizens.
[WERE YOU ON THIS FLIGHT? Contact me by confidential email at this email address:
reporter.bloom [AT] gmail DOT com
I am an aviation reporter who is also a survivor of an airplane "near-death" accident, a midair fire that was almost fatal, but fortunately we all survived. However, I know firsthand the problems that PTSD can cause, in one's life, in one's career, in one's future travel plans. In my case, I do not fly and have not flown since 1983 when the accident occurred. I never sued anyone and never received a penny in compensation for the ordeal we went through on that ill-fated flight. I hope all goes well for everyone on ill-fated Flight 357, but I know there will be problems. Some big problems.]
*Schiavo, author of the book "Flying Blind, Flying Safe," urged the passengers to move quickly, as the Warsaw Convention, which regulates liability for international airlines, has strict deadlines. Post-traumatic stress syndrome [PTSD] and other psychological trauma often don't hit patients for months, sometimes even years, she said. Airlines have been known to then ask why those passengers did not seek help immediately after the crash.
Among the passengers were:
*Mitra Gopaul, returning from Israel, where he worked for the Bahai World Center as a database administrator. "I'm still wondering why I had to go through this, if there is a godly reason," said Gopaul, who said his 20-year-old daughter was riding a bus along nearby Highway 401 and witnessed the crash. "I have to figure out in my personal life why I had to go through that."
*JoAnn Cordary Bundock, a vice president for Marriott International Inc., said she is reluctant to get involved in 358 litigation, but may not have a choice. "We need compensation that is fair and just, and if it comes to the point of having to sue them because they're not doing what they're supposed to do, then I will do that." She is dreading her flight to Seoul next Tuesday for a business meeting, not because she fears a crash, but because she does not know how she will react to flying. "I want to do my job; I like my job and I can't do my job without traveling," said Bundock, an American who lives in Fort Lauderdale and Toronto and racks up some 25,000 frequent flyer miles a year. "I don't know how this is going to affect me on this trip, or in six trips down the road. I am quite concerned because this is my livelihood."
Dennis Lewis, British/Canadian national returning from job in UAE to visit family and friends in Toronto for five days and then scheduled to fly back to the Middle East
Gwen Dunlop, who was returning from a vacation in France
Olivier Dubois, quoted in many AP news stories
Ahmed Alawata
*Eddie Ho, 19, a college student from South Africa: "The first week, I was plagued by nightmares, difficulty in sleeping, loss of appetite and constant flashbacks," said Ho, who says he's uncomfortable with the lawsuit, but feels compelled to join. "People say, `You're going to get tons of money,' but I don't see it that way. It's such a pain and I want my old life back. I wish it had never happened, I really do. It's uncontrollable and it's a psychological disaster."
Johnny Abedrabbo, a 32-year-old economist,
Stephanie Paquin, a 17-year-old Woodbridge, Ontario, returning from a student exchange in France
Martine Chrocca,
Veronica Laudes, a Toronto resident who was in Paris on business,
Maria Cojocaru, a resident of North York, was travelling from Paris with her seven-year-old daughter and her three-year-old son, after visiting family in Romania.
Dominique Pajot, 54, a Frenchman flying on business
Samantha Todd, a 16-year-old Toronto high school student
Gilles Medioni, a French journalist [Let's see what this journalist writes later!]
Lisa Popow, 15, a Canadian student
Aurélie Durel, 17, a French exchange student
Rashmi Bhawsar, 27, flying with her four-year-old son while immigrating from India
Sonia Tempestini, 19,
MORVARID Poorsattar, from Iran
Bastien Massol
[QUOTE: "I have only one thing to tell them, Air France: I think it's not fair," Cojocaru said. "I thought they would try, you know, to comfort us."] She said this after telling a reporter that Air France did not help much in the terminal after the crash. Another passenger said all Air France offered was US$300 in compensation for her lost items, such as cellphone, computer, baggage, jewelry, everything she had in the cargo hold...)
THE GREAT ESCAPE
Survival instinct took over passengers, experts say
ByCAROLYN ABRAHAM
August 4, 2005
MEDICAL REPORTER; With reports from Katie Rook and Joe Friesen
A primeval, and sometimes ugly, survival instinct swept over some ofthe desperate passengers of Air France Flight 358 when they foundthemselves trapped in the burning plane that skidded off a Torontorunway Tuesday.It was for a time, as several passengers described it, everyone forhimself or herself.Stephanie Paquin, a 17-year-old returning from a student exchange inFrance, said "people were just pushing. They didn't care about anyoneelse." After fleeing through the emergency exits, "everyone wastrampling everyone."Johnny Abedrabbo, a 32-year-old economist, was also struck by the"pushing and shoving" as the first wave of panic set in among hisfellow passengers.AdvertisementsNot everyone turned aggressive in their bid to flee the danger,however. Some were helpful, such as the stranger who pulled Ms. Paquinout of the ravine where the plane ended its slide.But before the plane's emergency exits popped open, the range ofemotions that played out in the crowded aisle of the Airbus A-340 wasa primitive one.Psychologists who study human behaviour under traumatic conditions saythese involuntary survival responses have evolved with us from theearliest days of life on the planet."We have a bunch of primitive reflexes in which we exhibit behaviourlike animals in certain situations," said Steven Taylor, a professorof psychiatry at the University of British Columbia, whose researchfocuses on trauma and anxiety.As Neil Rector, psychologist and head of the anxiety-disorders clinicat Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, put it, "We arehard-wired to seek survival."Generally, Dr. Taylor said, a person can experience four states ofresponse to trauma or a progression of these states.The first is a mode of hypervigilance, where "like a rabbit beinghunted by a dog and hiding in the bush," a person remains very quietand still, absorbing visual cues and scanning the perimeter for anescape route.The second stage involves the urge to flee, followed by the instinctto physically overcome whatever obstacles prevent the escape, commonlyknown as the fight-or-flight response.It is during this third state that people can seem to lose their senseof compassion, Dr. Taylor said, noting this may help explaintemporarily trapped passengers who push and shove as panic sets in.Often people will "later feel embarrassed" for their behaviour.But Dr. Rector pointed out these are automatic reactions. One featureof the fight-or-flight response "is to become myopically focused onthe threat at the expense of other elements of the environment. . . .The instinct for survival overrides the hierarchy of social niceties."The fourth stage, Dr. Taylor said, is "tonic immobility," where aperson might seem to freeze up and later describe the experiencesaying, " 'I couldn't move' . . . They would be just standing thereuntil they were grabbed by someone saying, 'Come on, we've got to getout of here.' "To some extent, Dr. Taylor said, the brain shuts itself down duringtrauma as a protective mechanism, or narrows the ability to focus.This may help explain why some passengers decided to stop to collecttheir carry-on luggage before fleeing the burning aircraft.Dr. Rector noted that those passengers who collected their bags arealso examples of the fact that not everyone perceives danger in thesame way. "Some people perceived less of a threat, and so felt therewas more time to leave in an orderly way."Ms. Paquin, who stopped to gather her bags, was among those who didnot realize the gravity of the situation. The Woodbridge, Ont.,student was surprised by the shouting and panicking of others.Not until she was off the plane, seeing it blazing and turned on itsside, did she think, "Oh my God, I didn't know it was that serious at all."
"Happy to be alive"
Passengers of Flight 358 recount tense moments after landing
by VIVIAN SONG and CHRIS DOUCETTE, reporters
TORONTO SUN
When Air France flight 358 first landed in Toronto after being warned of lightning strikes in the area, the passengers broke into applause.
"We landed and it seemed fine at first, so we all started clapping until all of a sudden we heard this shaking on the aircraft," economist Johnny Abedrabbo, 32, said.
"It just kind of took a nosedive on the runway and swerved to the left."
"We bounced pretty hard," passenger Lauren Langille, 16.
The plane had veered off the runway, but the pilots came on the intercom soon after to reassure passengers that everything was safe and sound, several told The Sun last night at a hotel near the airport.
The first sign of trouble came earlier when the plane aborted a landing and went around for a second attempt.
"The weather is too hard so the captain is going around," passenger Ahmed Alawata recalled.
About a minute before the plane landed, as it approached Pearson the second time, the lights in the cabin went out, said passenger Olivier Dubois. "Just before touching ground, it was all black in the plane, there was no more light, nothing."
Abedrabbo said he heard a sound like a tire blowing out, and the plane began to shimmy and swerve. And that's when he noticed the fire.
"The tire blew up, and as soon as it swerved and stopped, we saw the left engine just basically shoot up in flames, red flames," Abedrabbo said.
Norbert Boudreau of Ottawa said measured panic soon spread throughout the darkened plane.
"Then two minutes later, a stewardess yells out that there was a fire and we had to evacuate at the back," he said.
Langille described how acrid black smoke soon filled the cabin.
"I saw a lot of orange flame. Fire was everywhere and we started to evacuate," she said.
Passengers scrambled out emergency exits and slid down inflatable chutes.
"We slid on our asses to get out and ran up to the street where there was a truck waiting for us," Boudreau said.
Some, like 16-year-old Samantha Todd of Toronto, lost their shoes as they climbed through mud, bushes and brambles to safety. "I wasn't thinking about anything except getting out of the plane," she said.
"There was the fear of the explosion, because we were all trying to go up a hill that was all mud," said Gwen Dunlop, who was returning from a vacation in France.
"We had lost our shoes, we were just scrambling, and there was people with children. The rain was just coming down, and the wind and the lightning. We were just thrown into the weather and thrown into everything."
Dunlop said the evacuation was anything but orderly. "There were people climbing over seats to get out." He said he and other passengers ran through grass as tall as a metre high to the busy Hwy. 401, fearing the plane would explode at any moment.
"Finally we hit a road, where trucks and cars had stopped and people let them into their vehicles," he said.
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"It was a miracle that no one was killed" in yesterday's crash of an Air France Airbus at Pearson airport, says Ontario's deputy chief coroner.
But it's not the first time that an airline disaster has been averted.
Have you ever had a near-miss while flying? Did yesterday's crash at Pearson bring back memories of your own close-call flying experience?
Send your stories by e-mail to online@tor.sunpub.com -- including your full name and city -- and we may publish a selection of your comments online or in the print version of the Sun.
Air France crash probe starts amid dispute over landing
Michel Comte
AFP
August 5, 2005
MIRACLE: Officials view the wreckage of Air France flight 358 as it lies in a gully off the end of the runway in Toronto on August 3. Canadian aircraft investigators said that they are looking at weather as one possible cause of the 'miracle' Toronto plane crash, in which all 309 passengers and crew walked away from the fiery remains of the Airbus A340.(REUTERS)
TORONTO -- An Air France jet that crashed at a Toronto airport was working normally as it arrived, Canadian investigators said on Thursday, but a dispute erupted over who approved the landing during a storm. Canadian authorities and Air France sought to deflect responsibility on who approved the landing while Toronto Pearson International Airport was on "red alert" because of a lightning storm. The Airbus A340 jet hurtled off the runway and ended up in a gully in flames. But all of the 297 passengers and 12 crew survived in what Canada's Transport Minister Jean Lapierre said was a "miracle". Crash investigators have found the so-called black box flight recorders and are studying the information. They said that the jet appeared headed for a safe landing before it skidded off the end of the runway. "The initial landing appeared very normal," said Real Levasseur, lead investigator for the Canadian transportation safety agency. "There was no emergency declared from the part of the air crew and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the aircraft condition and its safety as it was approaching to land." At least three of four engine thrust reversers deployed during landing, which means, "the crew were doing what they were supposed to do to slow the aircraft down after landing". The fourth thruster was too badly damaged to tell whether it had been working, Levasseur said. He noted that a strong tail wind might have given the plane a push as it sped along the runway. Media reports have highlighted other theories. Passengers and witnesses have said that the jet was hit by lightning as it descended. Experts have also said that it could have aquaplaned because of the torrential rain in the area. Pearson airport had earlier stopped landings and departures because of the storm, which investigators have already said probably played a key role in the accident. Investigators have questioned the copilot who was at the controls, but they gave no details. The decision to land has already become a controversy. Air France chairman Jean-Cyril Spinetta indicated that it was the control tower that decided the Airbus could come down in a storm, while Canadian transport minister Lapierre said that it had been the pilot's decision to land. "There is no recommendation that can force a plane to land," Lapierre told Radio-Canada television late on Wednesday. "The only person who makes a decision to land is the pilot, the commander. And as a result, he has full responsibility for that decision," Lapierre added. Spinetta, who is in Toronto heading an emergency team, seemed to blame airport authorities for allowing the landing. "Airport authorities apparently deemed conditions for landing difficult but still possible" despite the rain and wind, he told a news conference. "The Air France jet - I have personally confirmed this - had enough fuel left, if it had been necessary, to land at another airport," he said. Rescuers praised the copilot for taking a last look around the jet to assure no one had been trapped on board. The captain of the jet injured his back in the accident and investigators will not interview him until doctors give approval, Levasseur said. A flight attendant and 12 passengers were still in hospital, according to officials. Passengers Carla Sbrugnera and her husband Enrico Giacomuzzi Moore suffered the worst injuries in the crash. She fractured three vertebrae and he fractured one, doctors said. Randy Knipping, a doctor at Trillium Health Centre in Toronto who specializes in aviation-related injuries, said: "This is still a minor injury from the point of trauma. But when you get your back broken in three places, it's not minor from the point of view of the patient." The couple was sitting in the first row in first class at the front of the plane when it fell into a gully. Giacomuzzi Moore put his head between his legs and his knee was thrown up and broke his nose, Knipping said.
Family sues for 'severe' trauma
Kids now afraid to get into a car: Lawyer
By SARAH GREEN, TORONTO SUN
Air France probe focuses on landingSurvivor fears she'll never flySurvivors promised payoutFlyers: Airport fails guideines
FIVE MEMBERS of a Toronto family who were passengers on the Air France flight are planning to sue for damages for the injuries and trauma they suffered in the fiery crash.
Lawyer David Diamond, representing the family who asked not to be named, said the suit -- to be filed in coming weeks -- will likely ask for damages in the "tens of thousands" for each member of the family.
Diamond said the father injured his ankle and the three children, aged eight to 15, are traumatized by the ordeal, "swearing up and down they're not going to fly again."
One of the children is suffering from bad headaches and all three, who are having nightmares, will need therapy, he said.
"It's severe psychological trauma," Diamond said. "They're afraid to get into a car. It's pretty traumatic for them."
He said the parents are coping "pretty well" with the emotional aftermath.
The suit will possibly name Air France and the Greater Toronto Airport Authority, although no decision has been made, he said. It may become a class-action suit as more passengers come forward.
The family commends the swift evacuation of the Airbus with saving the lives of all 297 passengers and 12 crew members. "There wasn't the panic and mayhem that could have occurred," Diamond said.
Meanwhile, Toronto firm Will Barristers: Morin and Miller will hold an information session next Wednesday for Air France passengers with noted U.S. lawyer Mary Schiavo. She represents families of passengers on the hijacked Sept. 11 planes. nic and mayhem that could have occurred," Diamond said.
Meanwhile, Toronto firm Will Barristers: Morin and Miller will hold an information session next Wednesday for Air France passengers with noted U.S. lawyer Mary Schiavo. She represents families of passengers on the hijacked Sept. 11 planes.
posted by DANIELBLOOM at 11:38 PM
54 Comments:
A poster wrote:
"I'm glad the New York Times is writing about editing. Now if they'd do some editing, I'd be even happier.
What about that atrocity about the "Miracle Flight Being Borne By Angel's Wings" or whatever goop they slung around after the pilot and co-pilot of Flight 358 managed to land that airplane in Canada the other day. They sure could have edited that. Into something professional and factual, for instance."
www.nytimes.com
*Roel Bramar*, another passenger, told CBC the landing seemed fast but fairly normal until the pilot appeared to have trouble braking. "Then all of a sudden, everything went up in the air - there was a real roller coaster going on. All I could think of was get off and climb down the chute."
For Passengers, Champagne, Tears and Joy
THE NEW YORK TIMES
By COLIN CAMPBELL
August 3, 2005
TORONTO, Aug. 2 - A vast majority of the passengers and flight crew members on Air France Flight 358 had barely suffered more than scratches [WAIT FOR THE PSTD to SET IN!], but their reactions to their glimpse with death ranged from terror to glee.
Some survivors drank champagne and gave relaxed interviews on Canadian television. Others could do nothing more than sob on an airport curbside [YES, THE BEGINNING OF PTSD]. Still others walked in a daze [PTSD SETTING IN!] in the lobby of an airport hotel wrapped in airline blankets.
While some said they thought they might die [YES YES YES, AND THIS WILL IMPACT THEIR PTSDs], others were stoic.
"I was a bit scared when I saw the flames but not really scared," said Dominique Pajot, 54, a Frenchman flying here on business. "There was a bit of a panic. We ran. It was burning in the back of the plane."
But after going to the hospital to check out his sore back, Mr. Pajot returned to an airport hotel and milled around the lobby in his pajamas.
Samantha Todd, a 16-year-old Toronto high school student, remembered "the really big bump" as the passenger jet lunged off the tarmac.
"You could see flames out the window," she recalled. "The next thing I remembered was everyone running for the exit. People were yelling for everyone to be calm and stay quiet. I wasn't thinking about anything but getting out of the plane."
She stood barefoot in a hotel lobby, having lost her shoes while sliding down the emergency chute.
Much of her memory remained a blurry fog, she said, although she remembered the smell of fuel inside and outside the fuselage and running with others to a nearby highway. She and others mounted a truck to make a getaway from the flaming scene.
"It was just one of those fluky things," she said.
Gilles Médioni, a French journalist, summed up the experience by saying, "You had to go fast."
He remembered climbing over armrests and seats to get to an emergency exit, as a flight attendant struggled to pry open an exit. "Some people didn't realize what was happening," he said. "We were the first to go out. It was very difficult." Lisa Popow, 15, a Canadian student, and Aurélie Durel, 17, a French exchange student, giggled about their experiences. "We didn't just land, we crash-landed," Lisa laughed.
Others were more shaken. "I'm unable to speak," said Rashmi Bhawsar, 27, flying with her four-year-old son while immigrating from India. "I was very scared."
Survivors tales:
"I was a bit scared when I saw the flames but not really scared," said Dominique Pajot, 54, a Frenchman flying here on business. "There was a bit of a panic. We ran. It was burning in the back of the plane." But after going to the hospital to check out his sore back, Mr. Pajot returned to an airport hotel and milled around the lobby in his pajamas.
Samantha Todd, a 16-year-old Toronto high school student, remembered "the really big bump" as the passenger jet lunged off the tarmac. "You could see flames out the window," she recalled. "The next thing I remembered was everyone running for the exit. People were yelling for everyone to be calm and stay quiet. I wasn't thinking about anything but getting out of the plane." She stood barefoot in a hotel lobby, having lost her shoes while sliding down the emergency chute.
Much of her memory remained a blurry fog, she said, although she remembered the smell of fuel inside and outside the fuselage and running with others to a nearby highway. She and others mounted a truck to make a getaway from the flaming scene. "It was just one of those fluky things," she said.
Gilles Medioni, a French journalist, summed up the experience by saying, "You had to go fast." He remembered climbing over armrests and seats to get to an emergency exit, as a flight attendant struggled to pry open an exit. "Some people didn't realize what was happening," he said. "We were the first to go out. It was very difficult."
Lisa Popow, 15, a Canadian student, and Aurélie Durel, 17, a French exchange student, giggled about their experiences. "We didn't just land, we crash-landed," Lisa laughed.
"I'm unable to speak," said Rashmi Bhawsar, 27, flying with her four-year-old son while immigrating from India. "I was very scared."
The New York Times, first report, by Clifford Kraus:
Jet Skids and Burns in Toronto; 309 Aboard Safe
By CLIFFORD KRAUSS
August 3, 2005
TORONTO, Aug. 2 - An Air France passenger jet from Paris with 309 people on board skidded off a runway and within minutes burst into flames on Tuesday while landing in [RED ALERT!] stormy weather at Pearson International Airport here. But all the passengers and crew members were able to scurry down escape chutes within five minutes after the crash, just before the fire spread through much of the aircraft. No one was seriously hurt. [PHYSICALLY, THAT IS. MANY OF THE PASSENGERS AND CREW WILL SUFFER YEARS AND YEARS OF POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDERS IN VARYING DEGREES, RESULTING IN PANIC ATTACKS, FEAR OF FLYING PHOBIAS, CLAUSTROPHOBIA, FEAR OF HEIGHTS, and other LIFE AND CAREER CHANGING IMPACTS...]
"We were in shock; we thought the plane would blow up," one of the passengers, Olivier Dubois, told the CTV network. "We were all running really fast out of there. We just tried to escape, sliding and running into the countryside."
Airport officials estimated that of the 297 passengers and 12 crew members on board, 24 people had minor injuries, mostly bruises sustained during the plane's slide and the wild dash through the jet and down escape chutes. [OFFICIALS DID NOT SPEAK ABOUT POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDERS THAT WILL FOLLOW THIS CRASH. WHY NOT?]
Local television stations reported that the pilot was one of the injured and had been taken to the hospital. At least some passengers were able to leave the scene afterward and go home or to their hotels. "I would say this is a miracle," Transport Minister Jean Lapierre said. "It's nothing short of a miracle." [Let's SEE what kind of MIRACLE this is years later when many passengers suffer the effects of PTSD all their lives. Some will lead more productive lives. Others will fall into despair. Some will find or refind a supernatural mythical God to help them cope; others will become atheists or agnostics. There will be huge lawsuits for mental stress. HUGE! This crash will cost AIR FRANCE around US$30 million or more, maybe US$100 million, maybe US$1 billion, when all the lawsuits are settled, 20 years down the road.....]
The landing occurred two hours after the airport suspended most take-offs because of [RED ALERT]severe weather. Several intense lightning bolts and strong winds coming from various directions were reported by drivers along a nearby highway moments before the jet, an Airbus A340-300, touched down.
The plane started to rock and skid after landing and then crashed through barricades into a woody ravine off the runway at 4:03 p.m. Airport officials said the aircraft overshot the runway by 600 feet.
Authorities would not speculate on the cause of the accident, saying that investigators had just begun work.
Passengers said the plane's interior lights shut down completely around the time of the landing, and some speculated that the aircraft had been hit by lightning.
They said, however, that they had no hint of how serious the situation was until the plane had touched down. Then, they said, pandemonium [THE BEGINNING OF PSTD memories!!!] broke out as the aircraft skidded off the runway. "We didn't know at all what was happening," Mr. Dubois said. "Everyone was really panicked."
Roel Bramar, another passenger, told the CBC that the landing seemed fast but fairly normal until the pilot appeared to have trouble braking. "Then all of a sudden, everything went up in the air. There was a real roller coaster going on. All I could think of was, 'Get off and climb down the chute.' "
One flight safety expert explained the possible fast approach this way: Planes landing in gusty weather commonly add more than 20 miles an hour to their approach speed, so that if a headwind suddenly dies, they have enough airspeed to stay airborne, said Arnie Reiner, a retired airline captain and the former director of flight safety at Pan Am.
Commercial aircraft are designed to withstand lightning strikes without disruption to vital systems, including the brakes.
Under a joint safety agreement between American and European authorities, passenger jets are all built so that passengers and crew members can get out within 90 seconds.
Within 10 minutes of the crash, rescue workers and firefighters surrounded the plane to douse the fuselage with water and foam, and to help with rescues. Some survivors wandered onto a nearby highway, where drivers took them to hospitals.
Video images of the scene showed a solid ring of flame separating the front part of the fuselage from the rear, as well as several smaller fires. [FLAMES THAT WILL BURN THEMSELVES INTO THE LIFELONG MEMORIES OF SOME PASSENGERS; OTHERS WILL GO ON WITH THEIR LIVES AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED; PSTD DOES NOT IMPACT EVERYONE...]
Perhaps the pouring rain helped firefighters control the blaze, which appeared to be contained within an hour of the crash. But black and white plumes of smoke rose in the air for more than two hours afterward.
While Air France and airport authorities were slow to make public statements, images from the crash site were televised through Canada and the United States within minutes of the accident because a CBC cameraman happened to be at the airport to record lightning in the area. [RED ALERT!]
NOTE: Micheline Maynard contributed reporting from Detroit for this article, and Matthew L. Wald from Washington.
Pilots should have aborted Toronto approach, experts say
Montreal Gazette, Canada - 17 hours ago
Investigators said extreme weather might be a potential aspect of Tuesday's Airbus crash, while some aviation experts suggested the severe thunderstorm should ...
Delays irk flyers
Ottawa Sun, Canada -
By MARIA BABBAGE, CP. Relief at their narrow escape from death gave way to frustration and anger for some passengers of Air France Flight 358 yesterday. ...
Passengers' relief turns to frustration
Globe and Mail, Canada - Aug 3, 2005
By MARIA BABBAGE. Toronto — Relief at their narrow escape from death gave way to frustration for some passengers of Air France ...
highway 401 disaster
PSTD
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) = group of symptoms for about one month after the event that is considered outside the range of normal human experience - extremely traumatic, e.g., wars, earthquakes, plane crashes, near misses, crashlandings, natural disasters, concentration camps and there have been other names of PTSD in war settings - shell shocked and battle fatigue....Question is: what is normal experience? spouse abuse? not statistically rare - not "outside the range"..do see PTSD symptoms in some people like this, rape and sexual abuse - may lead to PTSD like symptoms...DSM's defintion is constantly evolving...Epidemiology of PTSD, Kessler et al, 1995, National Comoribidity Study current prevalence rates = 2,000 women and 3,000 men, but right now quiete a few, all aged 15-54 years....Behavioral/symptoms = must have experienced some traumatic event, persistant re-experiencing of the traumatic event, dreaming, nightmares, flashbacks, constant memories....stimuli or situations will bring memories back (like fireworks), in PTSD there is avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma or numbing, may avoid situations that bring up feelings, engage in physical or emotional avoidance, may not be able to avoid some of these situations, in this case learn how not to feel anything anymore, numbing, this is an adaptive response, can cut self off from feeling or off from thoughts, may have "amnesia" of event, long term is not good with PTSD...Symptoms of PTSD = increaesd arousal, sleep problems, irritable, hypervigilance, incredibly sensitive to things going on around them, can be viewed as an adaptive response, exaggerated startle response, difficulty concentrating...Prevalance of experiencing a Criterion A traumatic event, Kessler et al, 1995, 61% of men and 51% of women, a lot of people experience these events, "significant difference" Average number of traumatic events (Criterion A) - Men: 5.3 and women: 4.3...development of diagnosable PTSD, Breslau, 6.2 - 9.5% of men and 13 -17% of women, sig. dif., mediated by nature of trauma (e.g. assault vs. accident), discussed as violation from held assumptios, chronicity of trauma predicts PTSD, how long this goes on, Viet Nam vets - best predictor of PTSD is amount of combat exposure, type of trauma matters, auto accident: 12%, sexual assault: 15-25%, war: 15% women and 25% men (historically) in war - participation in atrocities predicts PTSD, stage theory of PTSD, 1st stage - shock stage(dazed disoriented), 2end stage - suggestible stage (passive, suggest what people should do, direct the person...own coping hasn't yet kicked in, 3rd stage - recovery stage, experience anxiety or go back to normal functioning, this happens evenually...either person goes back or you see signs of PTSD....symtoms may begin right after trauma for some people, and for others it may take longer, specfier: with delayed onse (later on) - develops after six months from event, often see problems with drug or alcohol abuse, self-medication, avoidance of emotional experiences....treatments for PTSD: Pharmacological: treat depressive symptoms, treat anxiety, not effective by itself (relapse rates high, drugs not really good here)....Psychological (exposure), cognitive processing - great data, exposure therapies, acceptance based strategies, stress inoculation training, prolonged exposure, and Cognitive Processing Therapy: new way to think about how you feel about world...exposure-based therapy, activate memory by either information about the stimuli, responses, or meaning, systematic desensitization to the traumatic memory in safe enviornment, new information must be provided that is incompatible with the current fear structure in order for a new memory to be
formed.http://www.ncptsd.va.gov
Notes from a lawyer's interior monoblog:
"Let's see, what can we get here? well, many of the victims of Flight 358 will be suffering from PTSD and other anxiety-related mental problems, so we can sue the airlines for a huge payout. Stress due to landing in red alert storm, should never have been attempted, gross negligence, attempted murder, we can get money for anyone who wants it. US$1 million each passenger. Air France will pay. PTSD leads to loss of income over 20 year period due to stress and fear of flying phobias, sue for amount of lost income, etc. This will be the biggest payout in aviation history. Glad everyone survived, but it's gonna be a tough haul thruough the future for some of them. Surviving this kind of accident has its pitfalls."
Notes from a passenger's blog in the year 2020:
"wow, i can't believe I am still suffering the effects of the crash landing in Toronto back in August 2005, but it's true. can't sleep at night, panic attacks, and i simply cannot bring myself to get into another plane again. Claustrophobia, fear of enclosed space, fear of flying, you name it, i got it. My career has nose-dived too since I cannot do the normal business travel expected of me, and as a result, i have lost out on promotions, executive pay and other job perks. Not to mention my marriage is in shambles, and not completely unrelated to that ill-fated day in August 2005, many moons ago. i still suffer the afer effects. most people don't believe me, say to me, oh get over it already, you're safe, you survived, get on with your life! ha, you try it. it aint easy. I'm a wreck. sometimes i sort of think it might have been easier (better?) if i had died in that crash landing because my life the last 15 years has been pure mental hell. hard for most people who have never experienced this to understand. everyone thinks i'm crazy. except my shrink, who does understand, thank God..."
It's beginning. See?
headline reads:
Family sues for 'severe' trauma
Kids now afraid to get into a car: Lawyer
By SARAH GREEN, TORONTO SUN
Air France probe focuses on landing
Survivor fears she'll never fly
Survivors promised payout
Flyers: Airport fails guideines
5 MEMBERS of a Toronto family who were passengers on the Air France flight are planning to sue for damages for the injuries and trauma they suffered in the fiery crash.
Lawyer David Diamond, representing the family who asked not to be named, said the suit -- to be filed in coming weeks -- will likely ask for damages in the "tens of thousands" for each member of the family. [MILLIONS MORE LIKELY - Ed!]
Diamond said the father injured his ankle and the three children, aged eight to 15, are traumatized by the ordeal, "swearing up and down they're not going to fly again." OF COURSE. PTSD!
One of the children is suffering from bad headaches and all three, who are having nightmares, will need therapy, he said. FOR YEARS AND YEARS!
"It's severe psychological trauma," Diamond said. "They're afraid to get into a car. It's pretty traumatic for them." [It's Post traumatic stress disorder! and there will be more!]
He said the parents are coping "pretty well" with the emotional aftermath.
The suit will possibly name Air France and the Greater Toronto Airport Authority, although no decision has been made, he said. It may become a class-action suit as more passengers come forward.
The family commends the swift evacuation of the Airbus with saving the lives of all 297 passengers and 12 crew members. "There wasn't the panic and mayhem that could have occurred," Diamond said.
Meanwhile, Toronto firm Will Barristers: Morin and Miller will hold an information session next Wednesday for Air France passengers with noted U.S. lawyer Mary Schiavo. She represents families of passengers on the hijacked Sept. 11 planes.
MORE LAWSUITS COMING SOON!
A flight attendant and 12 passengers were still in hospital, according to officials.
Passengers Carla Sbrugnera and her husband Enrico Giacomuzzi Moore suffered the worst injuries in the crash. She fractured three vertebrae and he fractured one, doctors said.
Randy Knipping, a doctor at Trillium Health Centre in Toronto who specializes in aviation-related injuries, said: "This is still a minor injury from the point of trauma. But when you get your back broken in three places, it's not minor from the point of view of the patient."
The couple was sitting in the first row in first class at the front of the plane when it fell into a gully. Giacomuzzi Moore put his head between his legs and his knee was thrown up and broke his nose, Knipping said.
More passengers list:
Carla Sbrugnera
Enrico Giacomuzzi Moore
Roel Bramar
Survivor fears she'll never fly
'The escape wasn't immediate like they say'
By KEVIN CONNOR, TORONTO SUN
MARGARET BANCERZ doesn't know if she will be able to step foot on an airliner again.
The 17-year-old Brampton high schooler was returning home Tuesday from a month-long foreign exchange learning program when her Air France flight crashed at Pearson airport.
"I hope I can get to the point where I can fly again because I love to travel," Bancerz said yesterday from the airport Novotel, where she and 27 other exchange students were being housed by Air France.
"I'm feeling fine physically and I guess mentally I'm all right. Some of us are stronger than others ... some aren't holding it together very well."
[Uh, post traumatic stress disorder is setting in, of course. This will last a long time for some people, not a long time for others, and for some people, no time at all will be spent on PTSD.]
Air France has arranged for psychologists to talk to the students and help them cope with the ordeal of the crash.
Bancerz said escaping from the crash was a horrifying experience.
"The escape wasn't immediate like they say. I couldn't get out of the plane. People were pushing and trying to grab their luggage," she said.
"There was panic. When we got out, we were told to run as far and as fast as we could because the plane may explode."
Bancerz and a friend high-tailed it to the road and flagged down a car, which took them to a nearby gas station.
"The first thing I did was phone my mom to say I was fine," she said.
Air France chairman Jean-Cyril Spinetta stopped by the hotel yesterday to speak to the students after visiting the plane's pilot in hospital.
"I feel responsible to help the students from the flight. I wanted to tell them they will be compensated. We will be mobilized for a long time for what they may need ... mentally, physically and for their possessions," Spinetta said.
[Like 20 years of lawsuits, visits to therapists, a huge event like this takes YEARS to recover from, if ever. Godspeed, everyone on that plane!]
Survivors promised payout
Compensation for belongings
By IAN ROBERTSON, TORONTO SUN
MORVARID Poorsattar and her boyfriend Bastien Massol will have to shop for new presents to celebrate his birthday on Sunday.
The couple, who arrived aboard ill-fated Air France Flight 358 to spend a month visiting her relatives, lost all their belongings when the plane burned up after crashing.
Happy to be alive, Poorsattar, 28, said she was pleased to get some financial help yesterday from Air France, but was not happy being back at Pearson airport.
"I don't like the airport," the Paris orthodontist said.
GRABBED PASSPORTS
"If I can get back to Paris with a bicycle, I would go back that way," Poorsattar, who was born in Iran, joked.
The couple grabbed their passports and jumped about two metres to the ground. He was first, she was next, caught by Massol, a car-making engineer from France.
After checking with Air France, they were told their luggage, presents and camera "were lost," Massol said.
Sonia Tempestini, 19, also returned to the Air France counter yesterday, to collect some promised compensation for losing all her luggage and camera in the fire.
'HAPPY TO BE HERE'
Accompanied by her uncle, Frank Gabriele, the bubbly teenaged Italian literature student from Rome said "what's important is my life, I think. I am just happy to be here."
She is looking forward to spending the next month with her family here, before returning to Italy on Sept. 2.
Gabriele said Air France has promised "she will get more compensation later, when she is home."
Real Levasseur, head of the Transportation Safety Board probe, said passengers should never have risked their lives to retrieve belongings.
"If I can get back to Paris with a bicycle, I would go back that way," Poorsattar, who was born in Iran, joked.
February 2003
Warsaw Convention
Courts In The United States Are Finding That Defining Bodily Injury Is Proving To Be A Complex Task
In actions involving international air transportation, the cause of action for personal injury or death is governed exclusively by a treaty of the United States known as the Warsaw Convention.1 Article 17 of the treaty provides:
The carrier shall be liable for damage sustained in the event of death or wounding of a passenger or any other bodily injury suffered by a passenger, if the accident which caused the damage so sustained took place on board the aircraft or in the course of any of the operations of embarking or disembarking.
See Eastern Airlines, Inc. v. Floyd; 2Air France v. Saks. 3
Article 17 provides the exclusive cause of action for bodily injury and wrongful death caused by an accident "on board the aircraft or in the course of any of the operations of embarking or disembarking." EL AL v. Tseng.4 Further, an Article 17 cause of action is a plaintiff’s only remedy for injury during international transportation and completely preempts any state law claims. See Tseng; Carey v. United Airlines; 5 Husmann v. Trans World Airlines, Inc.; 6 Potter v. Delta Air Lines. 7
If plaintiff can prove both an “accident” on board the aircraft (or while embarking or disembarking) and a “bodily injury” caused by the accident, plaintiff may recover compensatory damages, as punitive damages are not permitted in a case governed by the Warsaw Convention.8
While many post-Saks cases have concentrated on what constitutes an “accident” under Article 17 of the Warsaw Convention, this Newsletter will focus on a closely related question: what constitutes a “bodily injury”, as is required to allow recovery under the Warsaw Convention?
Recovery for pure emotional distress is not allowed under the Warsaw Convention
The Supreme Court held in Floyd that a passenger cannot recover for “mental or psychic injuries unaccompanied by physical injuries or physical manifestation of injury.” In Floyd, the aircraft engines failed in flight and the passengers were advised to prepare for a ditching in the Atlantic Ocean. Fortunately, the crew was able to restart the engines and the aircraft landed uneventfully. The passengers sued Eastern, claiming damages for their mental distress arising out of the incident. Eastern conceded that the incident amounted to an “accident” under Article 17, but argued that “bodily injury” was also a prerequisite to liability under Article 17. In reviewing the drafting history of the Warsaw Convention, the Supreme Court agreed with Eastern and held “that Article 17 does not allow recovery for purely mental injuries.”
Bodily signs of emotional distress do not constitute a “bodily injury”
Since Floyd, numerous cases have held that where a passenger alleges mental injuries such as dizziness, anxiety, sleeplessness, irritability and loss of confidence, those claimed injuries are insufficient to meet the “bodily injury” requirement of Article 17 of the Warsaw Convention necessary to impose liability on the airline.See e.g., Bloom v. Alaska Airlines (intentional infliction of emotional distress caused by an airline employee is not a “bodily injury”);9Carey (physical manifestations of emotional distress, including nausea, cramps, perspiration, nervousness, tension and sleeplessness do not satisfy bodily injury requirement) ;10Terrafranca v. Virgin Atlantic Airways, Ltd. (feeling of anxiety, fear and isolation are purely psychic injuries that do not qualify as bodily injuries);11Grimes v. Northwest Airlines (no recovery for purely emotional or mental injuries) ;12Hermano v. United Airlines (physical manifestation of alleged emotional distress insufficient);13Asher v. United Airlines (no recovery where plaintiff cannot prove physical injury or physical manifestation of injury).14
Emotional distress must be linked to a bodily injury in order to permit recovery under the Warsaw Convention
Several post-Floyd decisions have articulated the meaning of the term “bodily injury” in the context of the Warsaw Convention and the type of “bodily injury” that must be sustained by a passenger for recovery of emotional injuries arising from the bodily injury. In Jack v. Trans World Airlines, 15 plaintiffs sought to recover damages for injuries allegedly sustained during the evacuation of a TWA flight which crashed on take-off. There was no dispute that the crash was an “accident” and many of the passengers had sustained minor physical injuries. Approximately half of the plaintiffs claimed that they suffered solely emotional distress from the accident while the other half claimed to have suffered emotional distress plus minor physical injuries.
Seeking to prevent injuries, the Jack Court set out the following rule:
Plaintiffs with impact injuries may recover for their impact injuries and the emotional distress flowing only from the physical injuries. They may also recover for the physical manifestations of their emotional distress. Plaintiffs with physical manifestations may recover damages for the manifestations and any distress following from the manifestations, but may not recover damages for the emotional distress that led to the manifestations. In both instances, the emotional distress recoverable is limited to the distress about the physical impact or manifestation, i.e., the bodily injury. Recovery is not allowed for the distress about the accident itself.(emphasis added).
Regardless of which approach is taken, plaintiff must prove a bodily injury in order to recover any damages under the Warsaw Convention. Where no bodily injury is proven, no damages are recoverable. The Jack approach has been approved and followed by other courts.
In Longo v. Air France,16 the honeymooning plaintiffs sustained minor injuries during an evacuation using emergency slides after their aircraft slid off the runway into the ocean. The plaintiff wife bruised her thigh and stepped on a sea urchin while her husband bruised his knee. Plaintiffs sued for damages, including their alleged “fear of flying.” Plaintiffs claimed that they could recover for all of their mental distress so long as some physical injury (i.e., the bruising of the thigh/knee) had occurred.
Rejecting that claim, the Longo Court held:
Although Floyd left open the question of whether emotional distress is compensable under Article 17 if accompanied by bodily injury, … Floyd prescribes the decision here to the extent the Longos have alleged mental injury that although accompanied by physical injury is unrelated to that physical injury. Allegations of mental distress that is unrelated to physical injury – i.e., mental distress that does not flow from physical injury or that does not flow from the physical manifestations of mental distress—are no different from the pure mental injury claims proscribed by Floyd, and therefore must be dismissed.
To hold otherwise, said the Court, would “give a windfall to that passenger who, in the course of evacuating, fortuitously pinched his little finger in his tray table.”
In Alvarez v. American Airlines, Inc.,17 plaintiff concededly sustained a “bodily injury” – bruises and scrapes to his knees – when he made an emergency evacuation of an American flight. Some time later, plaintiff saw a psychiatrist who opined that Alvarez was suffering from post traumatic stress disorder (“PTSD”). While plaintiff claimed both physical and psychological injuries as a result of the evacuation, he did not claim that there was any substantial connection between the two types of injury. The Alvarez Court followed the majority rule that Alvarez could recover for psychological injuries only if there is a causal link between the physical and psychological injuries. Since the Alvarez plaintiff’s post traumatic stress disorder and sexual dysfunction were caused by the emergency evacuation of the aircraft and not by the slight bruising of his knees and buttocks that accompanied the evacuation, his claims for psychological and emotional injuries were dismissed.
The most recent appellate decision discussing the connection between physical injuries and mental injuries proximately flowing therefrom is the Eighth Circuit’s decision in In re Air Crash at Little Rock, Arkansas.18 In Little Rock, the plaintiff Lloyd survived the crash of an American Airlines flight at Little Rock Airport on June 1, 1999. While Miss Lloyd sustained some relatively minor physical injuries and depression, she returned to school and her expert stated that while the physical injuries sustained to her legs were “a factor” in her PTSD and depression, he testified that those conditions were not necessarily caused by her knee injuries. He stated that in view of the nature of the incident and Lloyd’s thoughts that she was going to die, she would have sustained PTSD and depression even without the knee injury. At the close of the evidence at trial, American moved for judgment as a matter of law striking the claims for mental injuries. The motion was denied. On appeal, the Eighth Circuit, citing Floyd and Jack, held that recovery for mental injuries is permitted only to the extent that the distress proximately flows from physical injuries caused by the accident.
In so holding, the Eighth Circuit highlighted the distinction between mental injuries flowing from physical injuries suffered in the crash (recovery allowed) and mental injuries directly caused by the accident (not allowed). Citing Carey and Terrafranca, the Court further held that subsequent physical manifestations of earlier emotional injuries such as weight loss, sleeplessness or physical changes in the brain resulting from chronic PTSD, were not compensable under the Warsaw Convention.
Three other cases in which passengers have claimed that post traumatic stress syndrome qualifies as a “bodily injury” under the Warsaw Convention are Weaver v. Delta Air Lines, Inc.,, 19 Ligeti v. British Airways PLC, 20 and Bobian v. CA Czech Airlines. 21 In Weaver, the plaintiff survived a summary judgment motion by submitting affidavits from experts that the terror which plaintiff experienced during an emergency landing had a physical impact upon her brain and her neurological system. While it is certainly questionable whether such an analysis would survive a Daubert v. Merrill Dow Pharmaceuticals, Inc.,22 “gate keeping” test (which ensures that all scientific testimony or evidence to be admitted is reliable as well as relevant), the Court found the expert affidavits produced by plaintiff created an issue of fact sufficient to survive a summary judgment motion.23
In Ligeti, another District Court critically examined the plaintiff’s claim of post traumatic stress disorder after the plaintiff bumped her elbow while being locked in a lavatory during a British Airways flight. The Court held that plaintiff was not entitled to recover unless she could show that the bump of her elbow, which constituted the physical injury, caused her post traumatic stress disorder. Merely being locked in bathroom and suffering PTSD as a result of the confinement were insufficient to permit recovery under the Warsaw Convention.
The most recent case flatly holding that PTSD did not qualify as a bodily injury under the Warsaw Convention was Bobian.The Bobian plaintiffs were passengers on a Czech airline flight which flew into severe turbulence associated with Hurricane Floyd. The plaintiffs alleged that the turbulence caused emotional injuries, physical manifestation of emotional trauma and other damages and injuries to plaintiffs, including PTSD. The plaintiffs claimed that PTSD resulted in physical injury and damage to brain cells resulting in physical change and atrophy to the hippocampus, a structure of the brain dedicated to processing short-term memory.
Both parties conceded that whether PTSD was a physical injury was a question of law to be decided by the Court. The Court found that PTSD was not a compensable injury under the Warsaw Convention and no “expert re-characterization of emotional injury”, or even correlating the emotional injury with physical manifestations, would permit recovery under the Warsaw Convention. The Court noted that the purported expert testimony as to the PTSD came from experts who examined the plaintiffs for the first time some three years after the accident.
Finding that the Court in In re Air Crash at Little Rock had already rejected the theory that PTSD is in itself a bodily injury, the Bobian Court concluded that since all human thought and emotions are in some fashion related to brain activity and are therefore at some level physical, to accept plaintiffs’argument that PTSD was a bodily injury would be to break down entirely the barrier between emotional and physical harm that the Warsaw Convention required the Courts to maintain. Accordingly, the Court rejected the claim that PTSD was a bodily injury and dismissed the amended Complaint.
There have been varying judicial definitions of “bodily injury” under the Warsaw Convention
In an attempt to extrapolate the meaning of “bodily injury”, the courts have looked to both the earliest and the most recent cases interpreting “bodily injury” under the Warsaw Convention.
The first case which dealt with the necessity of a “bodily injury” as a pre-requisite to recovery under the Warsaw Convention was an older New York Court of Appeals decision, Rosman v. Trans World Airlines, Inc.24 The leading “bodily injury” decision outside of the United States is King (AP) v. Bristow Helicopters Limited (Scotland), In re M (A Child by her Litigation Friend CM) (FC), a House of Lords decision rendered on February 28, 2002.25
Rosman arose out of the hijacking of a TWA aircraft by the PLO enroute from Tel Aviv to New York. The plaintiffs, who were passengers aboard the flight, were forced to remain aboard the aircraft in cramped conditions for six days. The group was finally taken from the aircraft, forced to watch the aircraft destroyed by explosives, and were thereafter released and returned to New York. Plaintiff Edith Rosman claimed that as a result of the forced immobility during the six days that she was held captive on or near the aircraft, she developed a back ache, swollen feet and a large discoloration on her legs and back. Plaintiff Herman claimed that she became very frightened and developed a skin rash as a result of the incident.
Overturning a decision by the Appellate Division, the New York Court of Appeal, New York’s highest court, examined the language of Article 17 and rejected that damages for emotional distress, including physical manifestations of such distress, were recoverable. The Rosman Court held that the ordinary, natural meaning of bodily injury as used in Article 17 connotes “palpable, conspicuous physical injury, and excludes mental injury with no observable ‘bodily’, as distinguished from ‘behavioral’, manifestations.”
The Court found that in order to state a claim for damages under Article 17 of the Warsaw Convention,
[t]he claim must … therefore be predicated upon some objective identifiable injury to the body. In addition, there must be some causal connection between the bodily injury and the “accident.”
The facts of the Morris case are as follows:
On September 6, 1998, a 15 year-old passenger, Kelly Morris, was travelling on a KLM flight from Kuala Lumpur to Amsterdam. She was seated next to two men, both of whom spoke French. After the in-flight meal, she fell asleep and awakened to discover the hand of the man next to her caressing her left thigh from the hip to the knee. She got up, told a flight attendant what had occurred, and moved to another seat. Upon her return to the United Kingdom, a doctor found that she was suffering from clinical depression amounting to a single episode of a major depressive illness. It was conceded that there was no “physical injury” sustained by the infant plaintiff and the Court of Appeals held that in the absence of such a physical injury, emotional distress alone was not sufficient to permit recovery against KLM under Article 17 of the Warsaw Convention. Finding that the depressive episode which the Morris plaintiff allegedly sustained as a result of the touching of her thighs by her co-passenger did not fall within the scope of “bodily injury”, the House of Lords affirmed the denial of the appeal.
In reaching its decision, the House of Lords in Morris relied upon passages in Rosman, finding that in order for there to be a compensable bodily injury under Article 17 of the Warsaw Convention, the bodily injury must be “palpable”, “conspicuous” and “observable”.
As Lord Hobhouse of Wood-borough stated in joining the majority view of the Morris opinion:
The composite expression bodily injury involves a combination of two elements. The word injury in the context of personal injury involves a condition which departs from the normal, which is not a mere transitory discomfort or inconvenience and which, whilst not permanent or incurable, has, in conjunction with its degree of seriousness, a sufficient duration. It includes a loss of function. . .The word bodily is simpler. It means pertaining to the body. There must be an injury to the body.
Lord Hobhouse concluded that
bodily injury simply and unambiguously means a change in some part or parts of the body of the passenger which is sufficiently serious to be described as an injury. It does not include mere emotional upset such as fear, distress, grief or mental anguish . . . A psychiatric illness may often be evidence of a bodily injury or the description of a condition which includes bodily injury. But the passenger must be prepared to prove this, not just prove a psychiatric illness without evidence of its significance for the existence of a bodily injury.
Conclusion
“Simply” and “unambiguously” generally are not words closely associated with interpreting the Warsaw Convention. Indeed, the Tseng decision, while favorably simplifying the application of the Convention by holding that there is no recovery apart from the provisions of the Warsaw Convention, has been argued by parties so as to cause courts to grapple with the question of what constitutes a “bodily injury” under the Warsaw Convention.26
As the foregoing analysis of the cases interpreting “bodily injury” demonstrates, there are no clear cut answers and it is unlikely that there will be any determination by the Supreme Court in the near future as to what constitutes a “bodily injury” under Article 17 of the Warsaw Convention.
Endnotes
1 Official citation: Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules Relating to International Transportation by Air, October 12, 1929, 49 Stat. 3000, T.S. No. 876, 137 L.N.T.S. 11 (1934), reprinted in note following 49 U.S.C. § 40105 (1997).
2 499 U.S. 530 (1991).
3 470 U.S. 392 (1985).
4 525 U.S. 155 (1999).
5 255 F.3d 1044, 1048 (9th Cir. 2001).
6 169 F.3d 1151, 1153 & n.5 (8th Cir.1999).
7 98 F.3d 881, 885 (5th Cir. 1996).
8 See, e.g., Floyd; In re Air Crash Off Point Mugu, California, on January 30, 2000, 145 F. Supp. 2d 1156, 1162 (N.D. Cal. 2001; In re Aircrash Disaster Near Roselawn, Indiana, on Oct. 31, 1994, 960 F. Supp. 150, 153 (N.D. Ill. 1997); Jack v. Trans World Airlines, 854 F. Supp. 654, 663 (N.D. Cal. 1994); Harpalani v. Air India, 634 F. Supp. 797, 799 (N.D. Ill. 1986).
9 36 Fed. App. 278, 2002 WL 1136727 (9th Cir. 2002).
10 255 F.3d 1044 (9th Cir. 2001).
11 151 F.3d 108, 112 (3d Cir. 1998).
12 27 Av. Cas. 17,101 (E.D. Pa. 1999), aff’d without opinion, 216 F.3d 1076 (3d Cir. 2000).
13 27 Av. Cas. 17,523 (N.D. Cal. 1999).
14 70 F. Supp. 2d 614 (D. Md. 1999).
15 854 F. Supp. 654 (N.D. Cal. 1994).
16 1996 WL 866124 (S.D.N.Y. 1996).
17 1999 WL 691922 (S.D.N.Y. 1999).
18 291 F.3d 508 (8th Cir. 2002).
19 56 F.Supp. 2d 1190 (D. Mont. 1999).
20 28 Av. Cas. 15,720 (S.D.N.Y. 2001).
21 232 F.Supp. 2d 319 (D.N.J. 2002).
22 509 U.S. 579 (1993).
23 Wary of this argument, the Court in Turturro v. Continental Airlines, Inc., 128 F. Supp. 2d 170, 179 (S.D.N.Y. 2001), found that although objective evidence exists in some PTSD cases that brain damage has ensued, the “flood gates of litigation” might open unless Courts “carefully scrutinize claims of PTSD to ensure that litigants do not tack such claims onto Complaints simply to avoid immediate dismissal.”
24 34 N.Y.2d 385 (1974).
25 2002 WL 45487 (HL), [2002] 2 All E.R. 565, [2002] C.L.C. 820, 2002 G.W.D. 9-274, [2002] 1 Lloyd’s Rep. 745, [2002] P.I.Q.R. 29, 2002 S.C. (H.L.) 59, 2002 S.C.L.R. 499, (2002) 146 S.J.L.B. 61, [2002] 2 W.L.R. 578, 2002 S.L.T. 378, [2002] 1 All E.R. (Comm) 385, (2002) 99(13) L.S.G. 25, 3-01-2002 Times 45,487, 3-05-2002 Independent 45,487, 3-07-2002 Daily Telegraph 45,487, [2002] UKHL 7 (House of Lords, Feb. 28, 2002).
26 Fulop v. Malev Hungarian Airlines, 175 F.Supp 2d 651, 655 (S.D.N.Y. 2001).
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Attention News Editors:
Air France Crash Leaves Unanswered Questions
TORONTO, Aug. 5, 2025
Among the many questions that have arisen since
the crash of Air France Flight 358 in 2005 August:
What are the legal rights of passengers?
Who is ultimately responsible for any physical and/or psychological injuries
suffered?
The issues are complex, and can be addressed by Glenn Grenier. He is
regarded as one of Canada's foremost experts in Aviation Law, and heads up
Goodman and Carr LLP's Aviation Law Practice Group in Toronto. Glenn was
counsel to another high profile airline accident, representing 175 passengers
of a Toronto-to-Lisbon Air Transat Flight 236 that made an emergency landing
in the Azores in 2001. In June 2005, the Ontario Superior Court of Justice
approved a $7.65 million settlement on behalf of those passengers. This was
one of the first Canadian airline class action settlements. Glenn can share
his expertise on the liability of airlines in international accidents, The
Warsaw Convention, the IATA Intercarrier Agreement and how the Air France
crash compares to previous air disasters. Glenn can discuss what survivor's
legal rights are, what steps they should be taking now and the mechanics of a
potential class action of this magnitude.
Further information regarding class action airline lawsuits, can be found
by visiting www.flight236.com.
About Goodman and Carr
Goodman and Carr LLP is a full-service business law firm with a leading
Corporate Finance practice and an entrepreneurial approach to business.
The firm is based in Toronto.
For further information: Glenn Grenier can be reached at (416) 595-2474
or ggrenier@goodmancarr.com.
Law firm planning passenger lawsuits
Possible class action
Scott Stinson
National Post
Thursday, August 04, 2005
A Toronto law firm that is partnered with one of the largest class-action specialists in the United States plans to hold a public meeting next week to inform passengers of Air France Flight 358 of their legal rights after Tuesday's fiery crash.
Paul Miller, a lawyer with Will Barristers in Toronto, said yesterday the 297 passengers who scrambled out of the burning wreckage of the Airbus A340 appear to have a strong case for financial damages from the Paris-based airline.
"Just imagine going into that gully and the plane's coming apart," Mr. Miller said. "Those people must be freaked out like crazy today."
He noted that in March, Air Transat settled a class-action lawsuit stemming from a 2001 Toronto-to-Lisbon flight forced to make a hard landing in the Azores after running out of fuel. The settlement paid 175 passengers a total of $7.65-million.
Speaking of Tuesday's accident, Mr. Miller said: "This one is a lot worse. In terms of legal perspectives, it's a nice case."
He said his firm wants to tell Flight 358 passengers they need to take precautions now to ensure all legal options remain open in the future.
The liability of airlines in international accidents is governed by the Warsaw Convention, an international treaty that requires passengers to report injuries to a doctor as soon as possible.
"If you don't report them to a physician as soon as you become aware of them, or within a reasonable amount of time, you could lose your claim," Mr. Miller said.
The time and location of next week's meeting are still being determined, but Mr. Miller expects to be joined at the session by Mary Schiavo, the former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation and an aviation litigation specialist with the South Carolina law firm Motley Rice, LLC.
Motley Rice is one of the largest class-action specialists in the United States. It is working on behalf of 26 state attorneys-general in a lawsuit seeking to recover medical costs from the major U.S. tobacco producers, and is one of the main firms handling lawsuits against governments and airlines related to the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Ms. Schiavo said yesterday that survivors of airline crashes often go through a period of immense relief before anger sets in.
"They'll start to ask, 'Why did this have to happen?' and they'll find that it didn't. Then they're going to be angry that someone made a poor decision."
The Warsaw Convention caps individual damages at US$75,000, unless it can be proven that an airline displayed "wilful misconduct" or that air-traffic control decisions contributed to the accident.
Flight 358 passengers likely to escape 'survivor guilt': ER doctor
The fact that no one died in the Air France crash and fire at Pearson airport on Tuesday is likely to reduce the incidence of post-traumatic stress in the 309 people on board, Dr. Randy Knipping said Thursday.
Dr. Randy Knipping
VIDEO:
Christine Birak reports
(runs 2:43)
RP WP QT
"In this case I think you'll probably not see a lot of post-traumatic stress because it was really quite a miracle," the physician who treated some of the injured told CBC Radio.
Knipping is the head of the emergency room at the Trillium Health Centre in Mississauga and a medical support specialist for the Transportation Safety Board.
AUDIO: Metro Morning guest host Adrian Harewood spoke with Dr. Randy Knipping (runs 7:13)
REALPLAYER WINDOWS QUICKTIME
He says survivors of air accidents often suffer from "survivor guilt" and feel quite badly about their lucky escapes. But this incident will likely be different because there were no deaths and few serious injuries.
Related Indepth:
PLANE FIRE
FAQs
Interactive
Control tower transcript
Survivors' stories
Key quotes
Air accidents in Canada
Aircraft safety tips
Airbus safety record
Your reaction
CRASH SCENE VIDEO
courtesy Adam Hardi
(Real Video runs 0:43)
PLANE CRASH PHOTOGALLERIES
Plane wreckage
Your photos
Aug. 3 gallery
Aug. 2 gallery
Broken bones, spinal injuries
Real Levasseur, lead investigator for the TSB, described the passenger's injuries as minor at a briefing on Thursday.
"There's nothing serious in injuries. There are a few broken bones and stuff like that."
However, he says investigators are not yet able to talk to the captain.
"The captain is still in the hospital and we don't want to cause any more psychological damage to that individual … we have been assured that he is capable of talking to us," said Levasseur. "The injuries are reportedly to his back. I don't know the extent of those."
The plane was being landed by the co-pilot. He is expected to be interviewed by the safety board Thursday.
FROM AUG. 4: Air France crash co-pilot to be questioned
Italian couple still in hospital
Also in hospital are an Italian couple who were on their way to Banff for a holiday. They were sitting in the first row of the first-class section.
The woman has three spinal fractures and her husband has one broken bone in his spine. Knipping said they are the most seriously injured of those treated at his hospital. While these are not considered life-threatening, he said they are significant injuries that may take up to six months to recover from.
"During the first few days or weeks the actual spinal fragments start to fuse together and this is the most painful part of the recovery process," said Knipping, adding that they will likely need several weeks attached to frame that supports the spine.
The hospital was also visited by numerous passengers many hours after the crash when swelling and bruises had begun to appear. Most of these were neck and back injuries that are considered minor.
Wedneday officials said most of the 43 people originally considered injured had been treated and released, leaving about 14 in hospital.
A poster in the UK says:
"Well, it is certainly true that PTSD can trouble people for a long time. My father 's worst experience in the RAF was a crash on departure from which they were rescued just before the Mossie went up. That was 1945 and he had nightmares about it to the very end of his days in 2001. He never complained about it and described every day of his life henceforward as "a bonus".
If they have PTSD, then they can sue Air France. I am sorry to seem harsh but most people find life preferable to death."
NB Telegraph-Journal | Canadian Business
As published on page C2 on August 6, 2005
LEGAL
Air France passenger launches class action suit
Canadian Press
TORONTO - A US$75-million class action lawsuit was filed Friday accusing Air France, the Greater Toronto Airports Authority and Nav Canada of negligence in the landing accident of an Airbus A340 commercial jet this week.
The lawsuit, filed in Ontario Superior Court in Brampton, names Suzanne Deak of Toronto as the lone plaintiff, but the list of claimants is expected to grow.
The suit was filed on behalf of all 297 passengers on board the plane that skidded off Pearson airport's runway 24L before bursting into flames on Tuesday.
All passengers, as well as the 12 crew members on board, survived the crash; 43 people suffered minor injuries.
"We've got a bunch of people who have been hurt in some way and we know the passengers didn't cause the accident," said Paul Miller, the lawyer for the plaintiff.
"Someone else is at fault. ...
Chances are that all three defendants played a role in this accident." Deak was returning to Toronto from a trip to Hungary when Air France flight 358 overshot the runway and skidded into Etobicoke Creek, 200 metres west of the landing strip.
She escaped the plane with minor back and neck injuries.
"She is on medication for some psychological problems and she'll be seeing her chiropractor and her doctor in the next few days because of her back and neck injuries," said Miller.
It's too early to tell how many passengers will sign on to the suit, he added, but it likely won't be the only one to come out of the accident.
Those named in the suit have yet to respond and the claims have yet to be tested in court.
Several Toronto lawyers have been in contact with passengers who plan to take legal action.
Lawyer David Diamond has already spoken to at least 10 victims of the crash.
He expects to file a class action suit against the airline and the airports authority in the coming weeks.
"I'm still waiting to see the results from the black box recordings," said Diamond.
by Mike Lacey - More from this author
SHE WAITED AND PRAYED
Two things flashed through Natalie Lazure's mind as flames cascaded outside the rear window of the Air France jet she was aboard -- death and her family.
Eight hours earlier, the 17 year old had departed a Paris, France airport, sitting comfortably in her rear seat aboard the six-yea-old Airbus A340 carrying 297 passengers and 12 crew members. Beside her was Elisa Koch, 16. Natalie had spent the past month with Elisa on a student exchange program in France. Elisa was coming to Canada to spend a month at Natalie's East City home.
The flight was uneventful as they crossed the Atlantic Ocean. But, as the plane enters Toronto air space, it's a turbulent ride through intense lightning and rain.
The pilot had circled the airport for about 15 minutes when, suddenly, the cabin lights flickered off and the plane descended. As the aircraft's tires hit the tarmac, the passengers clapped, thinking their roller-coaster ride was over.
However, that exuberance was short-lived as the jet begins to jolt heavily about and then skid some 200 metres off the end of Pearson International Airport's Runway 24L.
As the plane careened into the Etobicoke Creek ravine, Natalie watched flames dance past her window.
The pilot's voice, she says, came over the intercom, explaining he didn't know what had happened but calling for calm and everyone to get off the plane quickly. The rest, for Natalie, remains a blur.
She remembers sliding down the cabin escape chute and flight attendants at the bottom helping passengers. She remembers the smoke and the rain, and climbing up a muddy embankment in her bare feet. She had lost her shoes during her trip down the chute.
She remembers both hersef and Elisa crying as they followed the frenzied crowd of frantic passengers scrambling away from the plane. And she remembers a few people turning around to take pictures of the wreckage that was moments earlier their ride home.
"There was a lot of panic and crying," adds Natalie.
"There were a lot of families trying to make sure everyone was together."
***
Tuesday's crash of the Air France jet at Toronto's international airport captured headlines around the world. It was 4:03 p.m. when the jet smashed into the ravine that separates a runway from busy Highway 401.
Within 90 seconds, the crew safely evacuated all passengers. Minutes later, explosions tore through the aircraft, engulfing it in flames.
Only 43 of the 297 passengers were taken to the hospital. Most of the injuries sufffered were minor wounds that came from escaping the burning plane.
Investigators continue to gather evidence on what caused the crash. But as they look for what went wrong, others are looking at what went right such as the actions of the fast-thinking crew and the quick response of emergency workers.
Some passengers ran onto Hwy. 401 where stunned motorists picked them up. Others were loaded onto buses and taken to the airport terminal. It would be hours later when they finally met with family and friends, each of whom knew little about the fate of their loved ones.
***
Natalie's mother and stepfather, Linda and Gary Brayshaw, along with her two sisters, Nicole and Chantal, waited patiently for Natalie's return from her month-long trip in Grenoble, France.
The storms that struck Toronto most of the day has delayed flights coming in and out of Pearson. Natalie's family was advised to take a walk around the terminal, which they did.
"I just thought it was the usual delays," Mrs. Brayshaw recalls.
As Mrs. Brayshaw and her daughters sat down to have a coffee, Mr. Brayshaw headed back to see if the plane had landed. While on an escalator, a pungent smell, like that of burnt wiring, overwhelmed him. He asked a man nearby what the smell is. The man's reply was chilling -- an Air France plane has crashed.
Mr. Brayshaw frantically made his way to the terminal where Natalie was supposed to disembark. Once there, he saw a small clump of passengers huddled together, wearing raincoats and blankets. He was told that all family members of passengers on the Air France jet are to go to the Sheraton Hotel and await further details.
As he made his way back to his wife, he catches a glimpse of the wreckage on a television. He's shaken, believing what most believed at the time - a massive loss of life resulted from the crash.
Mrs. Brayshaw sat sipping coffee when she saw her husband from a distance. As he waved for her to come to him, she thought Natalie's plane has landed.
"Then he said the plane had crashed...it wasn't real," recalls Mrs. Brayshaw.
At about 5 p.m., Peterborough's Lynn Harris continues to anxiously wait for her 13-year-old daughter Jody to return from her student exchange trip. She knows nothing about the burning debris that was a jet in the ravine.
"A parent heard (about the crash) on the radio...he came back into the airport screaming hysterically," she says.
In shock, her and others are taken to another area at the airport where they uneasily await more details.
"We just waited and prayed," she says.
The Brayshaws, meanwhile, rushed to the Sheraton Hotel as quickly as possible and were then sealed off in the Geneva Room with others. For the next few hours, they paced, hearing no word on whether their daughter is alive, injured or dead.
"People who listened to the news knew more than we did," Mrs. Brayshaw says.
As chaplains and rabbis entered the room, the worse outcome entered Mr. Brayshaw's thoughts. For her part, his wife found the spiritual contingent comforting.
It was shortly after 8 p.m. when Mrs. Harris learned her daughter is safe. By then, an exchange program escort, also aboard the ikk-fated jet, was able to contact his organization and inform them of the good news. The organization then contacted Mrs. Harris.
When she was eventually reunited with her daughter, she did what any mother would do.
"I broke her in half...I hugged her so tight," she says.
But the clock ticked closer to 9 p.m., some five hours after the crash, until the Brayshaws learn both Natalie and Elisa were safe. About an hour later, they finally saw their daughter.
"I went and gave her a big hug and didn't let go," says her sister Nicole, just 11 months younger.
"I'd be lost without Natalie."
Elisa was handed a cell phone and called her family in France. She talked for some length, her mother crying "because she didn't know if I was dead or alive."
For Natalie's family, it was the peak of a turbulent ride of emotions.
"It was the worst and happiest day in my life," Mr. Brayshaw says.
***
On Wednesday morning, Natalie scanned newspaper photos of the crash site, her hands shaking as she realized it was indeed a miracle no one died.
She slept poorly the night before, not returning home until about 1 a.m. and staying up to catch ongoing television coverage of the incident.
Her and Elisa spent a good portion of Wednesday afternoon shopping to replace the clothes they lost in the crash. After shopping, they sat patiently on a living room couch and fielded questions from reporters, reliving the crash they want to forget.
Natalie also spent the day trying to contact her father who was at his cottage. She believed he hadn't heard about the crash.
"He'll probably lose it," she adds.
While Natalie doesn't expect to take a plane any time soon, Elisa must return to France in a month.
"I think I'll take the boat," she says.
Pilots should have aborted Toronto approach, experts say
TOM BLACKWELL and SIRI AGRELL
CanWest News Service; CP contributed to this report
August 4, 2005
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CREDIT: CP
In this photo provided by a passenger who wished not to be identified, passengers of Air France Flight 358 run for safety Tuesday.
Investigators said extreme weather might be a potential aspect of Tuesday's Airbus crash, while some aviation experts suggested the severe thunderstorm should have persuaded the pilots to abort their approach and try again.
Investigators confirmed the aircraft had been in a holding pattern because of the extreme weather prior to being cleared for landing.
The Transportation Safety Board of Canada has taken control of the crash site, where the smouldering remains of the plane sit in three large chunks, and are investigating what might have caused the plane to overshoot the runway in pounding rain, lightning and strong winds Tuesday.
But for passengers of Air France Flight 358, relief at their narrow escape from death gave way to frustration yesterday as they fumed about their treatment by officials in the minutes and hours following the harrowing plane crash, which sent only 43 of the 309 people on board to hospital, all with minor injuries. Six people were still in hospital yesterday.
Martine Chrocca of France, who injured her back during the crash, said she waited for more than an hour for help, gathered under a nearby highway overpass with a group of nearly 40 other passengers to seek shelter from the torrential downpour.
Chrocca, who managed to recover her travel documents inside a carry-on bag, complained she got little help from the flight crew as she tried to get out of the plane, and suggested they were more concerned about the fate of the jetliner.
"It's strange that they are more interested in the plane outside - everybody is talking about the plane outside - than about the passengers, where they are," Chrocca said.
Maria Cojocaru, a resident of the north Toronto suburb of North York, was travelling from Paris with her two children, a 7-year-old girl and a 3-year-old boy, after visiting family in Romania.
She expressed frustration that airport officials took so long to get such basic provisions as blankets and water to the passengers once the immediate danger had passed.
"I have only one thing to tell them: I think it's not fair," Cojocaru said. "I thought they would try, you know, to comfort us."
Three-quarters of the passengers and crew escaped the wreckage in the 52 seconds it took for emergency crews to arrive, airport fire chief Mike Figliola said.
"The evacuation was a minute and a half to two minutes maximum," Figliola told a news conference. "The crew did a great job, they're trained to get the people off. This is what they're trained to do, and they did it perfect. It was a textbook case of getting the plane evacuated."
Toronto resident Veronica Laudes, who was in Paris on business, said she wasn't impressed with Air France the day after the crash.
The airline called her at about 4 p.m. yesterday to offer a reimbursement of up to $300 to replace any lost items, said Laudes, who lost her cellphone, laptop and business clothes in the crash.
"What am I going to do with $300? My phone cost me $250. That is not helping me."
Christian Lahceen, the vice-president of Air France, said yesterday: "Air France wants to express our solidarity to passengers and their immediate families" and added the airline is "fully engaged" in assisting passengers on the wrecked aircraft.
Reports from passengers and eye-witnesses suggested the Airbus made a hard landing, losing altitude quickly in the last moments. Unconfirmed reports also suggest the Airbus touched down relatively far down the runway, leaving less room than normal to come to a halt.
Safety board officials retrieved two black boxes from Flight 358 in the ravine at the end of that runway. Team member Don Enns said the cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder, along with tapes from air traffic control, should shed some light on what went wrong.
Enns said the team will address all aspects of the incident, "including the operation of the airplane, the operation of the airport and right down to including the crash, fire and rescue, which seems to have been very well-handled."
The board's team of 35 investigators is being augmented by about 16 outside experts from Canada and from regulatory agencies in France and the United States, said Real Levasseur, the board's chief investigator on the accident.
If wind activity made the plane lose or gain lift on its descent into the airport, the pilots should have "without a doubt" pulled up, circled around and waited for better conditions, said Bob Baron, a former jet pilot and aviation safety consultant.
But, he said, airline crew members are often reluctant to execute such "go-arounds," regardless of risky conditions, because of the cost and inconvenience of a delayed arrival. He stressed he did not know if that was the case with Flight 358.
"Sometimes (pilots) will try to be service-oriented to the point where they don't make the best decisions," said Baron, of the Savannah, Ga.-based Aviation Consulting Group.
"It's just not a good idea to land when there are thunderstorms in the area and they're having an effect on the aircraft. ... You don't want to push on an unstable landing."
Another expert suggested equipment failure on the high-tech craft, triggered by such weather factors as a rain-slicked runway and lightning strikes, is a more likely cause than wind and poor decision-making.
But the observers emphasized they were simply speculating based on public reports.
Levasseur said it is rare any one factor causes a plane crash; usually it is a combination of elements, he said.
National Post
© The Gazette (Montreal) 2005
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Op-Ed Contributor
A Hero in Every Aisle Seat
E-Mail This
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By BARUCH FISCHHOFF
Published: August 7, 2005
Pittsburgh
ONE survivor of the Air France crash in Toronto on Tuesday described the "panic" of his fellow passengers. Yet these people had just evacuated a burning plane in about two minutes. While they had had critical help from the plane's crew members, those trained professionals were busy assisting people with limited mobility, not providing psychotherapy. Thus what the passenger observed was clearly not "panic" in the sense of an unthinking crowd acting irrationally and abandoning the norms of civilized behavior. Indeed, it was the exact opposite.
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The Air France evacuation required an extraordinary degree of social coordination - which emerged among a group of strangers with virtually no time to prepare. Once out of the wreckage, they were aided by other strangers who, on the spur of the moment and with no expertise in emergency situations, had pulled off a nearby highway and calmly charged into the scene, despite the risks posed by an exploding plane.
While this sort of behavior is often described as remarkable, it is actually what researchers have come to expect. Studies of civilians' intense experiences in the London Blitz; the cities of Japan and Germany in World War II; the 1947 smallpox outbreak in New York; the earthquake in Kobe, Japan, in 1995; and even fires have found that people, however stressed, almost always keep their wits and elevate their humanity.
Indeed, the critical first responders in almost any crisis are ordinary citizens whom fate has brought together. As Kathleen Tierney, head of the University of Colorado's Natural Hazards Center, has noted, "The vast majority of live rescues are carried out by community residents who are at the scene of disasters, not by official response agencies or outside search and rescue teams."
In these ways, the Air France crash was fundamentally no different from the heroic evacuation of the World Trade Center on 9/11 or the London Underground on 7/7. People helped out one another, despite being in the (thankfully) rare circumstances that can occasionally produce panic: confined quarters, limited visibility, restricted exits and acute time pressure.
What the passenger called "panic" was a normal response to stress. Although unpleasant, that stress is typically productive. It focuses people on solving the problem at hand or identifying those among them who can do so. In a plane crash, those solutions might come from people who paid attention during the preflight announcements. In London last month, such problem-solving was evident among those who surmised that the darkness in the subway tunnel meant that the third rail posed no risk of electrocution.
Obviously, a passenger who has just made a harrowing escape is entitled to use whatever descriptive terms he wants. Professionals and policy makers, however, need to be careful with their language. In discussions of homeland security emergencies, one hears "panic" a lot, despite the evidence that panic won't be likely, whatever our enemies throw at us.
Tom Ridge, the first secretary of Homeland Security, warned the public not to give in to the terrorists and the "panic they seek to create" and informed it that first responders "tell us that avoiding panic and confusion in a crisis helps them do their jobs better." One of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's bioterrorism plans states that "following a terrorism-related event, fear and panic can be expected from both patients and health care providers."
If our leaders are really planning for panic, in the technical sense, then they are at best wasting resources on a future that is unlikely to happen. At worst, they may be doing our enemies' work for them - while people are amazing under pressure, it cannot help to have predictions of panic drummed into them by supposed experts.
It can set up long-term foreboding, causing people to question whether they have the mettle to handle terrorists' challenges. Studies have found that when interpreting ambiguous situations, people look to one another for cues. Panicky warnings can color the cues that people draw from one another when interpreting ambiguous situations, like seeing a South Asian-looking man with a backpack get on a bus.
Nor can it help if policy makers talk about possible draconian measures (like martial law and rigidly policed quarantines) to control the public and deny its right to manage its own affairs. The very planning for such measures can alienate citizens and the authorities from each other.
Whatever its source, the myth of panic is a threat to our welfare. Given the difficulty of using the term precisely and the rarity of actual panic situations, the cleanest solution is for the politicians and the press to avoid the term altogether. It's time to end chatter about "panic" and focus on ways to support public resilience in an emergency.
Baruch Fischhoff is a professor of social and decision sciences at Carnegie Mellon University and president of the Society for Risk Analysis.
One Flier's Best Friend Is the Safety Brochure
By HELENE COOPER
NYTIMES, editorial board writer
Published: August 6, 2005
Every single time I get on a plane, I engage in a little ritual: looking at the safety brochure. I say "looking at" because I don't actually read it. I just stare at it for about 10 seconds. It's my good-luck charm, and I strongly believe that if I look at the safety brochure before takeoff, the plane won't crash.
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About 10 years ago, I read a story about an aviation disaster near Pittsburgh, and for some reason it sent me over the edge. For two months, I acted like John Madden, taking buses and trains everywhere. But eventually, I had to get to Rochester from Washington, D.C., for a reporting trip. There was no way around it. I had to fly.
I was the last one to board, and in a cold sweat when I sat down and immediately reached for the safety brochure. But it wasn't there. "Excuse me," I asked the chatty man sitting next to me. "Can I look at your safety brochure?" He didn't have one either. What kind of fly-by-night operation was this? The plane started to back away from the gate.
There was no way I was letting that thing take off without my talisman. Reaching up, I hit the flight attendant call button. My eyes were wild by the time the woman got to me. "I don't have a safety brochure!" I yelled at her. Looking alarmed, she quickly went to the front of the plane and got one for me. My seatmate wasn't nearly so chatty for the rest of that flight.
After that incident, I started trying to get to my seat before anyone else on my row so I wouldn't frighten them with my intense relationship with the safety instructions.
Recently, I found myself smack in the middle of what can only be described as a nightmare for someone as afraid of flying as I am: puddle jumping across Africa. I flew from Accra, Ghana; to Nairobi, Kenya; to Addis Ababa, Ethiopia; and to Mekele, Ethiopia. Then back to Addis Ababa and to Nairobi, then to Kisumu, Kenya; back to Nairobi; to Bujumbura, Burundi; to Bukavu, Congo; to Kigali, Rwanda; and back to Nairobi.
Of course, before each flight, I looked at my trusty safety brochure. The Ethiopian Airways one was my favorite. The men going down the chutes in the pictures look very 1970s.
Because I had been flying so much that week, I must have gotten cocky. On the flight from Kigali to Nairobi, I forgot the usual precautions until the plane began taxiing down the runway. I was in the middle of a chat with a nice woman from Uganda when I stopped midsentence, and lurched for my safety brochure. Trembling, I got it open just as the plane got airborne. Close call.
My friend Shailagh is my volunteer therapist on this, because she's scared of flying, too. We call each other before our flights so whoever is not flying can console the other one.
The conversations are always the same. "I'm freaking out," one of us will say. "What airport are you at?" the other will ask, then come up with some lame reason why no planes from that airport will crash that day.
As soon as I saw the news footage of the Air France crackup in Toronto on Tuesday, I sent e-mail to Shailagh. "Did you see what happened? And I have to fly to Atlanta tomorrow." She's on vacation in Nevada, but she still replied in 10 minutes flat, pointing out the positive outcome. "Everybody lived," she wrote. "PRobably because they were Frogs!"
Nope, I thought, shaking my head as I read her e-mail. Those people looked at their safety brochures.
Let's just hope that the people aboard 358 and the Palermo flight use the emotions they have have undergone to move forward in a positive way in their lives.
and let's also have sympathy/empathy for those who might suffer PTSD as a result of the accidents, for a long long time.
The media tends NOT to discuss these things, and it is my hope that it will. PTSD is not a fictional excuse people dream up, it is a real emotional response to some deep deep trauma, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
From John Madden to Isaac Isamov (yes, that famous science fiction writer about space travel was deathly afraid to fly all his adult life....), many people do suffer irrational fears about flying. Of course, the skies are safe. Of course, planes are safe. We all know that.
But people who experience crashes, crashlandings and midair fires or other midflight emergencies CAN and DO sometimes suffer the consequences. Let's support them in their uneasiness and help them deal with these things, and maybe, even, hopefully, overcome them.
It aint easy.
THE MISSISSAUGA NEWS
Mississauga man considers Air France law suit
Computer, personal belongings lost in fiery crash
Louie Rosella
Aug 8, 2005
A Mississauga man who survived last week's fiery plane crash at Pearson International Airport is considering joining a $75-million class action lawsuit filed in a Brampton courthouse over the weekend.
The lawsuit accuses Air France, the Greater Toronto Airports Authority and Nav Canada of negligence in connection with the Aug. 2 crash landing of an Airbus A340 commercial jet at Pearson.
The lawsuit, filed in Ontario Superior Court, names Air France passenger Suzanne Deak of Toronto as the lone plaintiff, but the list of claimants is expected to grow, said Paul Miller, lawyer for the plaintiff.
Along with several other passengers, Mississauga's Mohammed Abou-Hantash, 26, said he'll consider joining the lawsuit.
"I lost everything in that accident, and right now, I'm just trying to recuperate," said Abou-Hantash, who was returning from a vacation in Egypt on the plane that skidded off a runway and crashed into a Mississauga ravine, just north of Hwy. 401.
An engineer, Abou-Hantash was considering moving to the Middle East. He was travelling with several personal belongings, including
his laptop computer,
important work-related files and documents,
suits and other dress clothing. All of it was burned in the wreckage.
"I have a friend who is a lawyer, and I'm going to discuss the lawsuit with him," said Abou-Hantash.
The suit was filed on behalf of all 297 passengers on board the plane that crashed. All passengers, as well as the 12 crew members on board, survived the crash. A total of 43 people suffered minor injuries.
It's too early to tell how many passengers will join the suit, Miller said.
Airline sources say Air France has already begun offering compensation to some passengers.
Abou-Hantash said he's been offered $1,000 by Air France, and has been told that the airline's insurance company will continue to deal with compensatory issues.
Meanwhile, the Transportation Safety Board of Canada's probe into the crash continues. Lead investigator Real Levasseur revealed this weekend the plane touched down nearly halfway down the rain-soaked runway, too far along to stop under those conditions.
Levasseur said the plane landed about 1.2 kilometres along the 2.7 kilometre runway. The normal landing threshold is about half a kilometre, but "if the runway is dry, landing at (1.2 kilometres) is no problem for the aircraft to stop."
Airline sources say Air France has already begun offering compensation to some passengers.
Abou-Hantash said he's been offered $1,000 by Air France, and has been told that the airline's insurance company will continue to deal with compensatory issues.
TORONTO -- A $150-million class-action lawsuit was filed in Toronto yesterday, accusing Air France, two of its pilots, the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, Airbus and Nav Canada of negligence in the crash of a passenger jet that burst into flames last week.
The lawsuit names Sahar Alqudsi and her husband Younis Qawasmi of Mississauga, as well as another couple identified simply as B.B. and I.B., as the representative plaintiffs.
This is the second class-action lawsuit filed in the case. Last Friday, a $75-million lawsuit against Air France, the GTAA and Nav Canada was filed in Brampton. If the various lawyers involved can't agree which lawsuit will continue, the court will decide.
Social worker works with Air France survivors
Professor Cheryl Regehr part of crisis support team to address fears of passengers' families
Aug 8/05
by Elaine Smith (about) (email)
Professor Cheryl Regehr of social work was driving home with her children Aug. 2 when the car radio reported news of an Air France crash at Pearson Airport.
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“OK, mom’s going out, who’s going to take care of dinner?” said one of the kids.
With a mother who is the associate director of the Greater Toronto Airports Authority’s crisis support team, Regehr’s family knows the routine in an emergency. Sure enough, as soon as the family walked into their home, both Regehr’s cellphone and her home phone started ringing with calls asking her to organize crisis support responders and head to the airport to assess the situation.
“At the beginning, it seemed like it was a bad accident,” Regehr said. “The first media reports were very negative, but by the time I began gathering more information from the airport, it started to look like there was some good news.”
Prepared for either outcome, Regehr jumped back in her car and headed to the airport. The crisis support team generally provides counselling and emotional support to emergency responders attending an accident or traumatic event, but in this case, team members were asked to meet with members of the airport’s family support team to assist family members of the passengers in addressing their fears and concerns.
By the time she arrived, families were generally aware that passengers were safe since many had made contact using their cellphones. As it turned out, Flight 358 had skidded off the runway in the rain but all of the passengers and crew were able to evacuate the plane safely.
In the family lounge at Pearson, team members talked with families to alleviate any concerns, all the while making sure they had the necessary items they’d need – food, phones, cribs, etc. – while they waited for passengers to be identified and given medical clearance.
Eventually, Regehr was summoned to the passenger assistance area.
“I chatted with passengers and made sure they were OK (emotionally),” said Regehr, who remained on call afterward. “I assessed anyone who was acutely distressed to determine what assistance was required but in general, people were calm and grateful to be alive.
“That’s not to say in the aftermath that there won’t be effects, but we’ll have to wait and see. When they see images of the airplane on the news, they might have different kinds of reactions.”
Regehr said nightmares and fears aren’t unexpected following such an incident, but she was impressed by the passengers’ response to the crash.
“People’s abilities to be resilient and cope really blow me away,” she said. “It’s amazing what people can deal with.
“I feel privileged to be able to talk with people after a traumatic event, privileged that they’re willing to share and trust. People are so decent, even after terrible things happen to them. It’s such a privilege to see how amazing people are.”
For the members of the crisis support team and other airport crisis response personnel, the crash of Flight 358 proved that their emergency response plans are sound.
“This is the biggest thing we’ve had at Pearson,” said Regehr, a 17-year crisis response team veteran. “The emergency response at the airport was phenomenal. Everything went exactly right.
“The airport plans, plans, plans and trains, trains, trains their emergency services personnel and it all worked. None of us can believe that of all the things that could have happened, it was this unbelievable, merciful event.
“You start to believe in God and karma. Something great happened.”
“I chatted with passengers and made sure they were OK (emotionally),” said Regehr, who remained on call afterward. “I assessed anyone who was acutely distressed to determine what assistance was required but in general, people were calm and grateful to be alive.
“That’s not to say in the aftermath that there won’t be effects, but we’ll have to wait and see. When they see images of the airplane on the news, they might have different kinds of reactions.”
Regehr said nightmares and fears aren’t unexpected following such an incident, but she was impressed by the passengers’ response to the crash.
“People’s abilities to be resilient and cope really blow me away,” she said. “It’s amazing what people can deal with.
“I feel privileged to be able to talk with people after a traumatic event, privileged that they’re willing to share and trust. People are so decent, even after terrible things happen to them. It’s such a privilege to see how amazing people are.”
PRIVILEGED? IS THAT THE WORD SHE WANTS HERE?
Cries of 'Panic!' ought to make us all a bit nervous
Air France crash reveals harm of careless language
By BARUCH FISCHHOFF
One survivor of the Air France crash in Toronto on Aug. 2 described the "panic" of his fellow passengers. Yet these people had just evacuated a burning plane in about two minutes. While they had had critical help from the plane's crew members, those trained professionals were busy assisting people with limited mobility, not providing psychotherapy. Thus what the passenger observed was clearly not "panic" in the sense of an unthinking crowd acting irrationally and abandoning the norms of civilized behavior. Indeed, it was the exact opposite.
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The Air France evacuation required an extraordinary degree of social coordination ?which emerged among a group of strangers with virtually no time to prepare. Once out of the wreckage, they were aided by other strangers who, on the spur of the moment and with no expertise in emergency situations, had pulled off a nearby highway and calmly charged into the scene, despite the risks posed by an exploding plane.
While this sort of behavior is often described as remarkable, it is actually what researchers have come to expect. Studies of civilians' intense experiences in the London Blitz; the cities of Japan and Germany in World War II; the 1947 smallpox outbreak in New York; the earthquake in Kobe, Japan, in 1995; and even fires have found that people, however stressed, almost always keep their wits and elevate their humanity.
Indeed, the critical first responders in almost any crisis are ordinary citizens whom fate has brought together. As Kathleen Tierney, head of the University of Colorado's Natural Hazards Center, has noted, "The vast majority of live rescues are carried out by community residents who are at the scene of disasters, not by official response agencies or outside search and rescue teams."
In these ways, the Air France crash was fundamentally no different from the heroic evacuation of the World Trade Center on 9/11 or the London Underground on 7/7. People helped out one another, despite being in the (thankfully) rare circumstances that can occasionally produce panic: confined quarters, limited visibility, restricted exits and acute time pressure.
What the passenger called "panic" was a normal response to stress. Although unpleasant, that stress is typically productive. It focuses people on solving the problem at hand or identifying those among them who can do so. In a plane crash, those solutions might come from people who paid attention during the preflight announcements. In London last month, such problem-solving was evident among those who surmised that the darkness in the subway tunnel meant that the third rail posed no risk of electrocution.
Obviously, a passenger who has just made a harrowing escape is entitled to use whatever descriptive terms he wants. Professionals and policy-makers, however, need to be careful with their language. In discussions of homeland security emergencies, one hears "panic" a lot, despite the evidence that panic won't be likely, whatever our enemies throw at us.
Tom Ridge, the first secretary of homeland security, warned the public not to give in to the terrorists and the "panic they seek to create" and informed it that first responders "tell us that avoiding panic and confusion in a crisis helps them do their jobs better."
One of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's bioterrorism plans states that "following a terrorism-related event, fear and panic can be expected from both patients and health care providers."
If our leaders are really planning for panic, in the technical sense, then they are at best wasting resources on a future that is unlikely to happen. At worst, they may be doing our enemies' work for them ?while people are amazing under pressure, it cannot help to have predictions of panic drummed into them by supposed experts.
It can set up long-term foreboding, causing people to question whether they have the mettle to handle terrorists' challenges. Studies have found that when interpreting ambiguous situations, people look to one another for cues. Panicky warnings can color the cues that people draw from one another when interpreting ambiguous situations, like seeing a South Asian-looking man with a backpack get on a bus.
Nor can it help if policy-makers talk about possible draconian measures (like martial law and rigidly policed quarantines) to control the public and deny its right to manage its own affairs. The very planning for such measures can alienate citizens and the authorities from each other.
Whatever its source, the myth of panic is a threat to our welfare. Given the difficulty of using the term precisely and the rarity of actual panic situations, the cleanest solution is for the politicians and the press to avoid the term altogether. It's time to end chatter about "panic" and focus on ways to support public resilience in an emergency.
Fischhoff is a professor of social and decision sciences at Carnegie Mellon University, in Pittsburgh, and president of the Society for Risk Analysis.
By PAUL KORING AND TIM LAI
Tuesday, August 9, 2005 Page A5
Air France's pilots didn't attempt a "go around" -- aborting a bad landing either before or just after touchdown to climb and circle for another approach -- said the lead investigator into the crash of an Airbus 340 that plunged into a ravine last Tuesday after landing nearly a kilometre too far down the runway.
"I'm convinced there was no effort, no attempt was made to get the aircraft back up again," Réal Levasseur said yesterday. He is heading the Transportation Safety Board probe into the accident from which all 309 people on board escaped. "This crew came over the threshold [of the runway] with the idea to land that airplane and that's what they did," he said.
Pilots are taught to "go around" rather than force a landing if too far down a runway or if the approach isn't properly stabilized.
"We don't look at human error," Mr. Levasseur said, preferring the term human factors to human errors. "We don't look at it that way because humans are humans, they're not machines," he said. "Humans don't work that way and they never will, thank God."
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Although the Airbus A-340 was roughly the correct height and speed on final approach, it failed to touch down until nearly half way down the runway, perhaps because the pilots were coping with gusty, veering winds as they tried to position the jet for touchdown.
So far the investigation has found nothing mechanically wrong with the long-range, four-engine, wide-body Airbus A340-300 that was completing a transatlantic flight from Paris packed with passengers.
"There's no indication that any aircraft systems or structures weren't working properly," Mr. Levasseur said. "We have ruled out the engines. There's nothing wrong with those engines as far as I'm concerned."
Mr. Levasseur has said they have already ruled out aquaplaning, which is when an aircraft slides on a thin film of water severely reducing braking. Although some passengers spoke of lights going out, a lightning strike seems unlikely because none have recalled the massive thunderclap that would have accompanied it.
Investigators have determined that it was the Air France co-pilot who was flying the aircraft. Although flight crews routinely alternate take-off and landing duties so both pilots remain proficient, the captain, almost always the more experienced, retains the authority to take control or to opt to handle a challenging landing.
Preliminary analysis of reams of data from the aircraft's flight recorders show the usual Airbus automatic braking sequence functioned properly. It is pre-armed by the flight crew. Once the wheels touch the runway, slats on the wings rise up to destroy lift and thus shift the aircraft's weight firmly onto the wheels. Then the disc brakes are applied and the engines -- at idle during touchdown -- are revved up with thrust reversers deployed to help slow the aircraft.
"As the wheels touched down, we see the brakes being applied right away. We see the spoilers coming up and we see the thrust reversers also being activated on all four engines," Mr. Levasseur said.
Safety board spokesman John Cottreau also confirmed that an initial examination of the flight data recorder showed no "indication of an increase in speed after the touchdown." That would seem to rule out suggestions that the crew momentarily advanced the throttles to "go-around" which would also have wiped out the pre-programmed braking sequence.
Like all major airlines, Air France, starting with the manufacturers' certificated performance of different aircraft models, instructs pilots how to calculate braking distances using a series of variables including weight, landing speed and wind.
According to a source familiar with Air France's manual, an Airbus 340 weighing 170 tonnes (likely about the weight of Flight 358) would need about 1,450 metres to stop on a wet runway. However, on a runway "contaminated" with 0.65 centimetres of water -- not unlike the very heavy downpour that drenched Pearson airport's runway 24L as the flight was landing -- 1,800 metres would be needed to slow and stop.
Runway 24L is 2,740 metres long. A pilot hitting the centre of the landing zone would have about 2,400 metres to slow and stop an A-340.
Instead, Flight 358 landed with only about 1,500 metres left on a slight down slope, with a modest tailwind and a very wet runway.
Settling for a miracle on the road
At about noon on Tuesday, the day nobody died in Toronto, I wrote myself a note as a teaser for a future column.
"What," I scribbled, "would it take to make life on the road fun again?"
Less than five hours later, I flipped on the tube and saw what looked like the tail of an Air France jet and a lot of smoke. CNN anchor Miles O'Brien claimed that the smoking ruin was what was left of Air France Flight 358. A licensed pilot, O'Brien speculated about wind shear and microbursts and the horrendous conditions — rain, wind, hail, lightning — in which the Airbus A340 was attempting to land at Toronto/Pearson Airport.
And then I saw a fireball. Big licks of flame cutting through the smoke. CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer, a frequent flier, one of us, blurted out the obvious: "That's an ominous sign."
And in my head, I heard what I always hear. I heard Jim McKay broadcasting from the 1972 Olympic Games saying somberly, "They're all dead. They're all gone."
I checked the calendar, just to be sure. August 2. Amazing.
I picked up the telephone and called Jerry Chandler. He literally wrote the book, Fire and Rain, about Delta Flight 191, which crashed on approach at Dallas/Fort Worth Airport. It was the first time most of us ever heard about wind shear.
Delta Flight 191 went down on August 2, 1985. Twenty years ago to the day.
Chandler, a gentle man with a passion for planes, and his wife, a gentle woman who hates to fly, were on the road, visiting with a new grandchild. I told him what was going on.
"This can't be happening again," he said instantly. "Especially not today."
And then, an hour or so later, the Canadian Broadcasting Company began to report that there were survivors. Moments after that, confirmation from Toronto Airport officials: They're all alive. They're all still here.
He didn't say it that way, of course. But that's what I heard, in Jim McKay's voice: They're all alive. They're all still here.
A miracle. No other word is appropriate. The Miracle of Flight 358. An instant and wonderful cliché.
I've heard from a lot of flight attendants and pilots in the last few hours. All their e-mails burst with justifiable pride: This is what we do. This is what we train for. This is why we matter.
They are right, of course. Only a superbly trained crew could have evacuated a fully loaded Airbus in about 90 seconds and gotten them all away with just a few dozen minor injuries. Real pros, well trained. Dedicated people who saved their passengers.
But I'm sticking with miracle here. I'm a guy who thinks every flight is a miracle anyway. I don't really know how those suckers fly, so every time they land and take-off safely, to me, we're talking miracle.
And, boy, did we need a miracle just now.
It goes without saying that life on the road since 9/11 has been miserable. But it was miserable before that, too. And, like I said, the soundtrack in my head is always Jim McKay: They're all dead. They're all gone.
When you hear that at the age of 19, as I did, you assume the worst all the time. And, sadly, there's been very little contrary evidence in the subsequent 33 years.
But not on Tuesday. For all the fire and rain in Toronto, there was a miracle. They're all alive. They're all still here. An honest-to-goodness, Jonah-in-the-whale, part-the-Red-Sea miracle.
We are not used to miracles on the road. I wrote this after American Airlines Flight 1420 went down in Little Rock:
"Every crash diminishes us and we remember that now. And we can't run away. We've got to take our fear, rational and irrational, and our concerns, logical and otherwise, and bury them at the bottom of our carry-on bags. We've got to lie to our kids and our lovers and our families and tell them that we don't worry about stuff like this. We have to make believe we're invulnerable. Every crash diminishes us and we have to make believe it doesn't."
But Tuesday we got the miracle. There was a crash and we were not diminished. They survived and walked away. We survived right with them.
Today or tomorrow or next week, we will still be afraid. We will still have to bury that fear at the bottom of our carry-on bag and make believe it is not there. We will still have to lie to our friends and lovers and kids and families and make believe about our lives on the road.
But now we have The Miracle of Flight 358. That's something. Maybe that's everything.
By the time The National, the CBC's evening newscast, got on the air Tuesday night, several of the survivors had told their stories. A guy named Rolf, champagne glass in hand, was interviewed in front of his house.
He was first off the plane because he was sitting next to the emergency exit. He jumped, landed, walked to Highway 401, the super-highway that borders Toronto/Pearson, flagged down a passing motorist and got a lift back to the terminal. And, damn, he said, this was the first time he had ever filled in his customs forms correctly.
You know, like it happens every day. Evacuate, walk to the highway, hitch a ride back to the terminal and bitch about your customs forms.
The Miracle of Flight 358. They're all alive. They're all still here. They're angry about their customs forms and there may not be enough champagne to make the point.
Nearing midnight on Tuesday, the day nobody died in Toronto, I took the note I scribbled about making life on the road fun again and tossed it into the circular file.
Fun, after all, is probably too much to ask for. I think we'll all settle for a miracle.
Read previous columns
Joe Brancatelli is editor and publisher of JoeSentMe.com, a Web site for business travelers. He is also the former executive editor of Frequent Flier magazine, travel advisor of Travel Holiday and contributing editor to Travel + Leisure. He can be reached at travel@usatoday.com.
After the thanksgiving comes the nitpicking. That's not to criticize the investigators, the rescuers or the survivors of the Air France Flight 358 crash at Pearson airport Tuesday, or any of the experts (both legitimate and armchair) now raising concerns about how the near-disaster was handled, or might have been handled better.
On the contrary, it's a crucial part of the process. As Don Enns of the Transportation Safety Board put it, "Part of (the investigation) is to determine why the accident happened; the other part is what are the issues which would affect survivability and ease of egress."
In this, investigators share the incredible good fortune of the 309 passengers and crew - all of whom lived to provide a wealth of information about what happened in the moments before the crash and in its fiery aftermath.
So far, weather appears to be the most likely cause of the accident, though that could take as long as a year to determine precisely. And numerous other issues, from the life-threatening to the mundane, must also be explored.
Among the questions we expect to be raised:
Did the pilots make the right choice to land in the extraordinarily turbulent storm? Did they HAVE a choice?
Did the ravine at the end of runway 24L play any role in the crash - either mitigating or exacerbating it?
As many observers noted yesterday, after an Air Canada jet crashed in the same ravine in 1978, killing two passengers, a coroner's jury called for the ravine to be filled in. Some now reiterate that call - though others insist the runways are safe and more than long enough.
Did the airline provide adequate service to the passengers, both as they were evacuating the jet (some complained that staff didn't give them enough direction) and after they were safely at the terminal (a few complained about long waits to be processed by airline and airport personnel and being given only ice water)? And were some unnecessarily hurt as they were forced to jump from exits where chutes had failed to deploy?
Did emergency crews respond quickly enough? Reports that firefighters were on the scene within 52 seconds is commendable, although some questions were raised about how long it took for passengers who made it to nearby Highway 401 to get assistance.
These questions are just the beginning - and none are meant to take away from the excellent work done by all concerned under unimaginably trying circumstances.
Rather, they must be asked to further the goal with which everyone in aviation identifies: Aiming high.
We can all look forward to the answers this Canadian-led investigation will bring. But there's no question about where our praise and gratitude belongs: with all those whose dedication, training and bravery helped them pull off a miracle.
I recently received a letter at this website from one of the passengers who aboard the AF 358 flight. I have disguised the information to protect the privacy of the person, of course. It is fascinating, on how luck and fate and destiny play a role in our lives. Read on:
QUOTE:
"I recently visited your blog and am writing to inform you that I also
was on the ill-fated flight 358 from Paris. I am a frequent flyer. Each year I
fly to Toronto to visit family and friends.
When I arrived at Charles de Gaulle airport on the morning of 2
August, I was supposed to fly to Amsterdam, from where I was supposed
to get my connecting flight to Toronto. I was told to my chagrin,
however, that my flight was overbooked and that I'd been placed on
standby. Half-an-hour before the flight and there were still no free
seats, so a helpful AF official put me on a direct flight to Toronto
from Paris - AF 358. Later, while standing in the check-in queue, I
was approached by an AF official who explained that this flight was
also overbooked. She asked if I'd consider staying in Paris an extra
night; AF would put me up in a nearby hotel and give me 150 euros for
my pains. I turned her offer down, since I only had 5 days to spend
with family in Toronto before flying on to Vancouver.
I was seated in the row just behind business class. I escaped from the
crash without even a scratch and realise how lucky I am, but right now
feel uncertain and plagued by vague fears and doubts. I decided to go
ahead with my flight to Vancouver, as I'd promised a friend I'd attend
his wedding.
I was surprised that I endured the flight without any
major incident, but am more than a little concerned about my long-haul
flight back to [nation halfway around the world] in just over a week from now.
I have exchanged email addresses and telephone numbers with several
other passengers on the ill-fated flight and intend to stay in
contact with them."
UNQUOTE
WOW. I just hope all the passengers have long and productive lives and do not suffer from the effects of any lasting trauma. Most of them will not suffer. A few of them might. I hope they will be okay, too.
i will post other letters I receive from passengers who aboard that plane, disguising their names of course, to respect their privacy. But their stories are important.
I received an amazing letter today, August 12, 2005, from a man who survived a tragic plane crash landing in Iowa...GOOGLE!.....he was one of 177 survivors ....(more than 100
died) .....in a 1989 crash near Sioux City, Iowa.
He wrote, and I protect his name and identity by not printing his name or location:
Dear Sir,
I sure sympathize with what those survivors of the Toronto crash landing must be going through, some of them more than others. In my own experience, from the 1989 crash me and my family were in, I must say right off, though, that my experience was MUCH less traumatic than what other people elsewhere might have described or what the Air France survivors might go thru, or some of them
. I'm not minimizing our 1989 crash in Iowa, but in many ways it was not much different from surviving a car rollover accident. I not only didn't ''almost die'', I didn't even witness or see anyone who died or almost died.
We were in the center section of the plane, which flipped over, and which was one of the pieces the plane broke into. All the seat belts held, and almost everyone got out on their own steam. In the front and rear of the plane, the scenes were far more hellish, of course.
Almost everyone in first class died instantly, and the rear of the plane was chaotic, with smoke and fire. That's where the majority of the casualties were.
112 died.
My family and I got out on our own steam, and while there were a lot of difficult aspects for us, none of us has suffered PTSD to any notable degree.
So I am not the best person for you to be in contact with about this issue.
Since I'm sure you're able to use Google, I urge you to enter Airline Crash Support Network. The first entry will get you to an organization I've heard of that seems quite active. There are other organizations of various types that are in a position to reach out to crash survivors and offer them understanding and help.
BTW, some of the worst PTSD victims from our crash were the rescue workers who arrived on the scene. A terrible day, though much less so for me and my family.
....I know there is only one thing a victim of this can do, which is to pick up the pieces and focus on how the rest of their lives can be better.
I wish the Air France survivors the very best. Please let me know how it works out with Airline Crash Support Network.
Interesting, a thread about all this was for some strange reason shut down by an admin guy at a website for professional pilots.
Apparently, they don't
want to hear about PSTD, I guess.
His somewhat sarcastic message was:
"Thanks, [sir], for your thoughts [here on our site]. "
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184875
"I'm sure that all interested parties are now aware of your [own] blog, and will no doubt be following it with fascination. [DO I DETECT SARCASM HERE? NICE, TIGHTBOY, NICE....]
"It would therefore be a duplication to continue this concept in two places at once, so I'll close this thread and let those interested direct themselves at your blog site."
This is what professional pilots are like?
Welcome to the new revamped PPRuNe Home Page. We have changed to a dynamic format with constantly changing information which we hope will improve your experience when visiting the site whilst at the same time keeping graphics to a minimum.
Over the last seven years as PPRuNe has grown we have watched with interest as new forums were added to cater for the diverse number of groups who have an interest in professional aviation. We have added forums for private pilots who want to be able to learn from the safety culture (or lack of it) in the airlines. Don't forget that many of us airline pilots started off as Private Pilots. The Pax & SLF (Passengers & Self Loading Freight) forum was added to cater for the large number of end users who benefit from our skills whenever they fly.
PPRuNe was originally set up to cater for airline pilots. Our jobs prevented us from having the normal 9 to 5 office lifestyle which is largely the norm for most people, so we do not get to hear the usual type of gossip and it was only when downroute in a night-stop hotel that we got to meet up with other crew and the rumours could circulate. As more and more people who are involved in our industry become interested in our 'network' we accommodate them with their own forums and now they are the core of the website.
Our most popular forums are: Rumours and News where any news that may be of interest to pilots and which encompasses information or discussion that directly relates to our jobs; the group of forums aimed at Wannabes where anyone who is interested in training to become a professional pilot can ask their questions and get their answers; Military Aircrew where the professional pilots of the armed services can and do discuss topics that are of interest to them; Jet Blast, where anything not directly about professional flying gets discussed and fraudsters are exposed as long as the 'hotel lobby' rules are followed. Indeed, there are over 70 forums to choose from although some are private airline specific and only accessible by invitation if you are employed by the airline.
Feel free to browse all the public forums and should you feel the urge to take part in any of the discussions then just register a Username for yourself and as soon as you are approved you can take part. Remember to read the FAQ's (Frequently Asked Questions) and if you are not too au fait with the internet or computers there is a forum dedicated to answering your questions too.
The PPRuNe community is made up of professional pilots and people from the thousands of other professions and trades that are all a part of one of the most exciting businesses in the world. If you have an interest in the business then you should be reading PPRuNe. After a while you will learn to sort out the 'wheat from the chaff'. The forums are moderated by a team of over 60 volunteers who are involved in the business and have some speciality knowledge of the subject area their forum covers. Our aim is to keep the content relevant and to stop the few troublemakers who are unable to learn 'netiquette' from turning some threads into flame wars.
PPRuNe started out as a hobby but has grown into an organisation dedicated to providing the ability for anyone with an interest and something worthwhile to say, a platform directly to the people who make the aviation world go round. Use it but please don't abuse it. It can be addictive, so be warned!
Air France Crash Victims Seek Compensation
TO TEACH AIRLINES PRUDENCE
THAT PLANE NEVER SHOULD HAVE TRIED TO LAND IN THAT STORM! PERIOD! THIS LAWSUIT WILL TEACH AIR FRANCE and OTHER AIRLINES A GOOD LESSON ABOUT PRUDENCE. IT's NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. read below
By BETH DUFF-BROWN, Associated Press Writer
info@ap.org
TORONTO -- Mitra Gopaul has trouble sleeping. Eddie Ho has repeated flashbacks. And some children are still clinging to their parents more than a week after surviving the Air France crash on the runway of Canada's busiest airport.
JoAnn Cordary Bundock, a business executive who must get back on a jet next Tuesday and fly to South Korea for work, worries she'll collapse in fear.
Air France, they say, has not done enough to compensate or reassure them. So they are considering joining a class-action lawsuit filed last week in Ontario Superior Court, which seeks US$269 million in damages for trauma, any future medical expenses and loss of property and earnings.
"The first week, I was plagued by nightmares, difficulty in sleeping, loss of appetite and constant flashbacks," said Ho, a 19-year-old business student from South Africa who says he's uncomfortable with the lawsuit, but feels compelled to join.
"People say, `You're going to get tons of money,' but I don't see it that way. It's such a pain and I want my old life back. I wish it had never happened, I really do. It's uncontrollable and it's a psychological disaster."
All 309 passenger and crew survived when Air France flight 358 from Paris landed long on the east-west runway at Toronto's Lester B. Pearson International Airport Aug. 2, skid some 200 yards off the end of the runway and slammed into a ravine. Everyone escaped about a minute before the jet was completely engulfed in flames.
About 50 of the passengers and their relatives attended a meeting called by Toronto lawyers at a downtown hotel on Wednesday night.
The lawyers have enlisted the help of Mary Schiavo, a former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation and strong critic of air safety. The aviation attorney has represented many air crash survivors, including the families currently suing the U.S. airliners involved in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Schiavo, author of the book "Flying Blind, Flying Safe," urged the passengers to move quickly, as the Warsaw Convention, which regulates liability for international airlines, has strict deadlines.
Post-traumatic stress syndrome and other psychological trauma often don't hit patients for months, sometimes even years, she said. Airlines have been known to then ask why those passengers did not seek help immediately after the crash.
"Survivors are sometimes a little too brave," Schiavo told the silent crowd, some foreigners who had a hard time understanding English and several who held their infants close. "Many of my clients I've represented in the past have put on a stiff upper lip."
Investigators say the flight voice and data recorders have indicated that the Airbus A340 was working properly, so they're now looking at weather, runway safety and what forced the co-pilot to land too far down the runway.
While many of the passengers have praised the Air France crew for quick action in getting them off the jet, they also say the passengers should be credited for keeping their cool and helping one another. Some are angered by what they see as a lack of communication with Air France and the discrepancies so far in compensation.
Some passengers have received $1,000, others $2,000 and still others $3,500.
"Why are they dolling out a thousand for some and different amounts for other people?" asked Bundock, who got $2,000 in cash. "It just doesn't seem fair, right from the very beginning."
Bundock, a vice president for Marriott International Inc., said she is reluctant to get involved in litigation, but may not have a choice.
"We need compensation that is fair and just, and if it comes to the point of having to sue them because they're not doing what they're supposed to do, then I will do that."
She is dreading her flight to Seoul next Tuesday for a business meeting, not because she fears a crash, but because she does not know how she will react to flying.
"I want to do my job; I like my job and I can't do my job without traveling," said Bundock, an American who lives in Fort Lauderdale and Toronto and racks up some 25,000 frequent flyer miles a year. "I don't know how this is going to affect me on this trip, or in six trips down the road. I am quite concerned because this is my livelihood."
An Air France spokesman in Paris said the money that passengers have received so far is only an advance on their compensation. Some lost credit cards and cash and needed larger sums, the spokesman said on customary condition of anonymity.
The spokesman said more compensation would be coming and declined to comment on the allegations of negligence on the part of the French airliner.
Gopaul was returning from Israel, where he was volunteering for the Baha'i World Center as a database administrator.
"I'm still wondering why I had to go through this, if there is a godly reason," said Gopaul, who said his 20-year-old daughter was riding a bus along nearby Highway 401 and witnessed the crash. "I have to figure out in my personal life why I had to go through that."
Schiavo, author of the book "Flying Blind, Flying Safe," urged the passengers to move quickly, as the Warsaw Convention, which regulates liability for international airlines, has strict deadlines.
Post-traumatic stress syndrome PTSD and other psychological trauma often don't hit patients for months, sometimes even years, .....Airlines have been known to then ask why those passengers did not seek help immediately after the crash.
EXACTLY!
Bundock, a vice president for Marriott International Inc., said she is reluctant to get involved in litigation, but may not have a choice.
"We need compensation that is fair and just, and if it comes to the point of having to sue them because they're not doing what they're supposed to do, then I will do that."
She is dreading her flight to Seoul next Tuesday for a business meeting, not because she fears a crash, but because she does not know how she will react to flying.
"I want to do my job; I like my job and I can't do my job without traveling," said Bundock, an American who lives in Fort Lauderdale and Toronto and racks up some 25,000 frequent flyer miles a year. "I don't know how this is going to affect me on this trip, or in six trips down the road. I am quite concerned because this is my livelihood."
EXACTLY!
A 1993 movie called FEARLESS
based on the 1989 Iowa plane crash
wonder if a movie will come out of the Air France crash landing too?
Notes:
When Max Klein (Jeff Bridges) finds himself facing imminent death as his plane hurls toward the ground, he finds inner calm and release from fear in his acceptance of his own unavoidable end. His panic erased, he helps other passengers to relax, and when he survives the impact, to escape. What follows is his difficult and complex journey back to emotional and spiritual equilibrium. Along the way he helps Carla (Rosie Perez), a woman smashed by the belief that her infant son's death in the accident was the direct result of her inability to hold him tightly enough, and alienates his wife, Laura (Isabella Rossellini), who tries desperately to understand what he's experiencing. Peter Weir's film is emotionally intense in an absolutely unsentimental way (very rare), and the complexity of the protagonist's experience is refreshing (if you don't mind feeling deeply). The handling of the crash sequences is chilling in an unsensational way, and the directing in general is a triumph of story-serving restraint. Not the usual Hollywood fare, but intensely rewarding for those who are tired of mind candy. --
This is a fabulous film. Emotionally deep, flawlessly directed and acted, without a false note throughout.
Jeff Bridges is (as always) excellent as a man who has undergone a transcendent experience so profound he cannot find his way back to his real life and world. Rosie Perez is not always my favorite actress, but here she is deeply moving as the guilt-racked, nearly destroyed mother of a dead child. The interplay between these two as they relate to each other and cannot relate to their families is told simply and eloquently, building to a shattering emotional climax.
Throw in terrific supporting performances by Isobella Rosselini as Bridge's loving wife who wants to reach him but cannot find the key to understanding his experience, Tom Hulce as a weasel lawyer, Benecio Torres as Rosie's husband who sees no harm in getting money for the tragedy and you have a full cast of three dimensional characters.
Oh, and there is a frightening plane crash that is grippingly done.
First rate in all departments, I must likewise agree with those that are angry the movie is not offered in widescreen format. Pan and scan just don't cut it. But, if it is the only way to see this movie, see it anyway.
"Fearless", starring
Jeff Bridges, Isabella Rosellini and Rosie Perez.
This decade-old film is awesome. Bring along plenty
of heart, at least one box of Kleenex, and the
inspiration of the New Year's spirit to launch the
next 12 months on an emotional high.
"Fearless" in many ways is a "chick flick", but this
guy was riveted to his seat...a hanky in hand...and so
wanton of an inspiring film to propel me into the New
Year. It is the story of a man who survives a plane
crash...and the after effects of saving lives...including
his own.
Jeff Bridges is stellar in the role of Max Klein.
Isabella Rosellini portrays his wife, and Rosie Perez
is a co-survivor...mom. This one is for every man and
woman on earth that either knows how to love and live,
or wants to know how to love and live. It pulls at
your heart strings like a Spielberg film, but has the
depth of a romantic drama no less compelling than life
at its very best...and worst.
Early in the film there is a scene where Jeff and
Rosie venture off to church to deal with "loss".
Their verbal exchange is priceless. It goes like
this:
As Rosie lights a candle near the alter, she looks
skyward and says, "You know you hurt me. You hurt me
forever. But I still believe in Him."
Jeff says, "Well, people don't so much believe in God
as a thing than not to choose to believe in nothing.
Life and death - they happen for no reason. We think
that people are born because their mother's wanted
them alive...that God needed another homerun hitter for
the Giants. We think that they die because they rob
me, or rob a bank. That way, even though we can't be
good enough or careful enough, we'll live forever. At
least we can try. But it makes no sense if life or
death just happens. Then there's no reason to do
anything.
Rosie responds, "Then there's no reason to love."
He asks, "What?"
She says, "There's no reason to love."
"Fearless" is nothing short of brilliant. It may not
be the best film for me to see one week before I catch
a plane to be with my sister and brother-in-law in
frigid Spokane, Washington, but it was a passionate
expose' on human emotions, feelings and compassion.
Max sets out to save the world, but we all know that
you can't take care of everybody if you don't take
care of yourself first.
This "feel-good" film comes with all the pieces.
There's nothing missing. If you know how to cry, be
prepared to do so. If you have a heart, lay it out on
the sofa as you watch this gem. If you seek purpose,
or have found purpose, watch it for the sake of
walking away from it with a heart of gold and respect
for life and limb, family and friends.
Does it sound like I was influenced by this film?
Damn right! It was the type of film that one may feel
was an intervention in their life at the most needy
point. It was for me. Rent (or buy) "Fearless".
There "is" a reason to love. Let "Fearless" lay out
the plan.
First, before it was a movie, it was a book, a novel by Rafael Yglesias. Same title.
QUOTE:
When Max Klein was 13 years old his father was struck dead before his eyes for no apparent reason. "As if God just reached down and squeezed the life out of him." He learned that death is random and inexplicable. Years later, when the commercial airliner Max is flying on crashes, he is again confronted with the random manner in which God disposes of life. What is most puzzling is that while most of the passengers on board were killed, Max not only survived, but was left unscathed. His suit is hardly wrinkled! Suddenly he is thrust into another zone where every breath is rapture; every grain of sand felt with the fingers and every blade of grass finding light through the cracks in the pavement a revelation. Being able to use the senses to their fullest is the greatest affirmation of life. Max begins to feel untouchable after his miraculous escape from death, but with this feeling of invincibility, he begins to lose touch with the living. The entire plane crash sequence, from the moment passengers notice something's amiss to the fateful descent, is the most frightening of its kind ever captured on film -- be forewarned! Rafael Yglesias adapted the screenplay from his novel "Fearless."
Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
A powerful examination of denial and guilt, Yglesias's terrific new novel opens with a gut-wrenching scene incarnating the worst nightmares of anyone who is afraid of flying. Forty-two minutes after takeoff, a DC-10 en route from New York to Los Angeles loses its rear engine. Max Klein, an architect traveling with his business partner, imagines the worst. Carla Fransisca, her two-year-old son in her lap, refuses to believe that she and her child are in danger. When the plane crashes, both are ironically confounded: Max walks away unhurt, and Carla blames herself for her son's death. The ordeal crushes Carla, elevates Max to a higher level of perception and strips them both of everything except brutal, fearless honesty.
Yglesias chronicles their actions after the flight with the same candor, often portraying Max and Carla as abrupt and abrasive without making them any less real or less likable to the reader.
A screenwriter as well as a novelist, he makes good use of cinematic techniques. Each image in his simple, precise prose is vivid and memorable; the pre-crash scene on the plane and a later re-enactment of the accident, in particular, linger in the mind.
1993
From Library Journal:
Acclaimed author Yglesias examines how almost dying can affect one's life. His protagonists are Max and Carla, who experience psychological problems after surviving a DC-10 crash. An architect traveling on business, Max accompanies his partner, who is killed in the crash. Having outwitted death, Max decides that he has nothing further to fear. Carla, traveling with her baby, feels unworthy to live once she loses him. Consumed by guilt, Max and Carla reexamine their lives, their relationships, and their religious beliefs, and eventually realize that they alone can make each other whole. Yglesias, a talented writer, immediately involves readers in the fate of his characters, telling their story extremely well. Highly recommended.
http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/aug/article188.html
The Aftermath Of The Air France Flight 358 Crashlanding
Edward Johnson is a lucky man. He was one of 309 passengers and crew who were aboard the Air France Flight 358 that crashlanded in a heavy thunderstorm in Toronto on August 3, 2005. Johnson (not his real name, but a real person who was aboard that flight) works in the Middle East and was flying home to Toronto to visit family and friends for a five-day visit, as he does once a year.
His story is a rivetting one, not only because he survived the crash (as did everyone else on board, praise the Lord!), but also because fate intervened in his life that week in strange ways. You want to know how fate and destiny intertwine to give meaning, and sometimes confusion, to our lives? Listen to this story:
When Edward Johnson arrived at Charles de Gaulle international airport on the morning of August 2, in transit from his job in a Middle East country to Canada, he was originally scheduled by his travel agency ticket to fly on to Amsterdam, from where he was supposed to get on a connecting flight to Toronto.
However, fate and destiny (call it what you will) intervened. Johnson was told that his flight to Amsterdam was overbooked and that he had been placed on standby. No problem there. A frequent flyer worldwide, he was used to these kinds of things when travelling half-way around the world for work and family visits.
However, 30 minutes before the flight to Amsterdam was to depart, there were still no free seats, Johnson recalled, so a helpful (well, at the time, he thought she was helpful!) Air France counter clerk put him on a direct flight to Toronto from Paris. Yes, the soon-to-be ill-fated Flight 358. Talk about good luck, bad luck!
But wait, the story gets even more complex. While Johnson was standing in the check-in line for his Air France Flight 358 flight, he was approached by another Air France employee who explained that that flight was also -- "sorry! sorry!" -- overbooked.
The ticket clerk asked Johnson if he would consider staying in Paris an extra night, with Air France putting him up at a nearby airport hotel on their dime and also giving him 150 euros for his understanding.
However, and here comes fate and destiny again, Johnson turned the generous Air France offer, since, as he recalls, he only had five days to spend with his family in Toronto before flying on to Vancouver for a friend's wedding there.
So Johnson boarded Flight 358 full of excitement and anticipation of what the next week would bring. He was seated in the row just behind business class, and the flight across the Atlanic was uneventful until, of course, the final approach to Lester Pearson International Airport in Toronto, where unbeknownst to the passengers, an extremely dangerous storm system was raging across the area.
The Air France jet tried to land one time, but given the wind conditions and the rain and the lightning, the pilot decided to go around once and try landing a second time. And you all know what happened on that second attempt, so I won't go into detail here.
As the Airbus came to a stop in a rain-soaked, wind-swept ravine past the end of the runway, Johnson was able to escape from the plane without even a scratch. And while he does of course realize how lucky he was, he also was hit, by his own account, by uncomfortable and confusing feelings and plagued by vague fears and doubts. He survived a terrible, terrible ordeal, safe and sound, but also hurting a bit inside. It's a natural reaction to an unbelievable, unfathomable event.
There's more: Johnson decided to go ahead with his scheduled flight to Vancouver for his friend's wedding, since he had promised his friend he'd be there. And he was. He even recalls that he endured the flight to Vancouver without any major emotional incidents, but he admits that he was a bit concerned about the long flight back to the Middle East scheduled to depart from Toronto just a week later.
Well, of course, he made it back to work, and all is well now. He notes in an email that he has exchanged email addresses and telephone numbers with several other passengers on the ill-fated flight and intends to stay in contact with them. Will Johnson or others who were aboard Flight 358 suffer from the effects of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) later in their lives or will they come away completely unscathed by their brush with an ill-fated airplane disaster?
Time will tell. Yes, time heals all wounds, as the old saying goes, but time will also tell who suffers and who doesn't from the powerful memories and emotions that PTSD draws upon. God bless everyone aboard Flight 358 as they go on with their lives!
[freelance features writer]
What's with all this BLOGSPAM here? Cut it out, guys.
Hello sir
I just wanted to write you and thank you for all the support you have given
last year.
To update you on what's happened so far, the Transport Safety Board has just
sent questionnaires which we had to complete.
Meanwhile, Air France has been offering settlements to individuals of around
$11,200 Canadian - one time off for all luggage loss, injures, emotional,
etc. But the Air Transat case set a
precedent for $12,500 and was less severe than Air France by a major amount.
BTW, A woman from the plane is still seeing the physiotherapist even today. Her jaws are locked and
it's due to the clinching of her teeth when she has nightmares at night
about the plane crash. I really feel sorry for her -
Thanks,
name withheld
Feb. 18, 2oo6
July 4
Dear Flight 358 Passengers,
I am with TopSpin Creative Corp., a Japanese TV production company in New York City. We are working on a program titled "Amazing Stories" on the Fuji Network in Japan.
We are producing a segment about Flight 358. For this we would like to interview some passengers. If you are willing to share your experience, please email me at mooradian@topspincreative.com
Thank you. I look forward to hearing from you!
Rachel
Is this right what dan has mentioned that New York Times is writing about editing?
Pearson Airport Taxi
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